'The people are satisfied'

The question was simple enough Sunday, and the answer distilled how difficult it can be to extract information in China.

Hundreds of foreign correspondents, like myself, are observing a huge conclave of the Chinese Communist Party, which is having its once-every-five-years congress.

The event opens Monday, and at the end of seven days, we may know who will take the reins from President Hu Jintao when he steps down, probably in 2012.

A spokesman, Li Dongshen, took questions at a news conference Sunday afternoon.

The final question from a Singapore reporter was this: Pollution and land disputes in China are getting worse. Social conflicts appear to be escalating. Could you release the latest figures regarding these social conflicts?

Li did not answer that question. Instead, he described social unrest in China as “only regional and individual.” In the larger picture, he said, “the majority of people have enjoyed real benefits from reform and opening up.”

Communist party leaders, he added, “exercise our power for the interests of the people. . . . The core of our work is to ensure, uphold and promote the fundamental interest of the overwhelming majority of the people.”

That goes not only for national party leaders but also local ones, he said, and “the bad incidents taking place in some individual localities were appropriately solved.

“Now in China, the economy grows, there is social progress and the people enjoy higher and higher living standards. The people are satisfied. Thank you.”

And with that, the news conference ended. So if you want to know actual facts about social unrest, go elsewhere. The party has acknowledged that 97,260 of its members were punished last year for corruption, influence peddling and other illicit behavior. In the first nine months of 2006, China tallied 17,900 “mass protests” around the country, the official Xinhua news agency said earlier this year.

But there are no new figures. Information on discontent is hard to come by. And by the way, how many of those punished party members actually served any jail time?

The party wants you to know only one thing: People are satisfied.

It’s just the troublesome journalists who aren’t.

Comments

[A B]

Would the CCP consider giving the same guarantee that Sears offer?

"Satisfaction Guaranteed, or your money back?"

But then, if they give you your money back, and it remains a People's government, does that mean the money they give back to you have to go to the 'people'?

When the party say they "ensure, uphold and promote the fundamental interest of the overwhelming majority of the people", is there any possibility that it would turn into a tyranny of the majority?

[Pffefer]

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=257

According to Pew Global Attitudes project, 89% of the Chinese are satisfied with the national government.

[nanheyangrouchuan]

Funny that a Chinese like AB has a more cynical and balanced view than a foreigner like pfeffer. And pfeffer, being Mr. China, should know that randomly walking around asking Chinese people their true feelings about such touchy subjects will get you nowhere. The CR is burned into the minds of the 40 and over set.

"The party has acknowledged that 97,260 of its members were punished last year for corruption, influence peddling and other illicit behavior."

Does that include Hu Jin Tao's daughter, who manages the official Chinese adoption agency?

[nanheyangrouchuan]

And since when are 89% of people in any country satisfied with their gov't? Only if they are afraid to express dissatisfaction.

[A B]

How about digging up some real dirt / news on the Party Congress?

What is on the menu for all the banquets?

What sort of entertainment are provided?

Are there private parties being held? Who is organizing them?

And above all, will the Congress launch a satellite so that some sunshine can be captured and images beamed down to the people below?

The government promised to bring sunshine to the exercise of power, right?

[Pffefer]

nh, PROVE to us that those who were surveyed were blatantly lying. Prove to us that Pew's survey is bogus.

Well, can you?

[A B]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/16/world/asia/16china.html

The NY Times has a picture of the hostesses practicing outside the Great Hall of the People.

Geeze, the cadres have it good.

[nanheyangrouchuan]

pfeffer:

Is there is a reason that you are blatantly avoiding AB's shots at the Congress?

Only a naive fool would believe any %89 of any population is satisified with their government. The North Korean and Myanmar official mouthpieces also report similar levels of public support, so that must mean that totalitarian regimes are more popular than democracies?

Get a clue pfeffer, and stay away from the Steinlager.

[rio]

sadly, perhaps 89% refers to the ppl who matter, i.e. the city dwellers (excluding migrant workers).
On the other hand, admitting that more than 1 in 10 Chinese are unsatisfied with their Government, i.e. over 100 million ppl, one would of thought would be shaming for the CCP, or cause for concern at the very least.

[nanheyangrouchuan]

Good point Rio, the CCP poll taker walks in to a private club of Chinese millionaires and asks "how many of you are satisfied with our gov't?" All raise their hands except for one who yells out "taxes are too high" and then leaves the room.

There is your 89%

[Pffefer]

Nh, why would I want to avoid whatever AB said about the 17th Congress? What is his point anyway? Do I think the congress makes much sense? No. Do I care? No.

Unless you can provide concrete proof that Pew's report was based on dubious data, you are not convincing me. Please note only about a third of the surveyed are satisfied with their own lives. Were they lying about that too?

[nanheyangrouchuan]

The fact that so much satisfaction exists with the Chinese gov't and yet so many people feel down about their personal lives (which include economics, social issues, jobs, local politics, etc...the kind of stuff that gov'ts are involved in) provides enough contradiction.

And compare this "satisfaction" to the levels of satisfaction in countries recognized as having much better human rights records, much freer presses and much better overall and per capita economic conditions and there is something odd.

[Pffefer]

Perhaps because the Chinese understand that managing a huge developing country like China is no easy task. Perhaps because most Chinese have seen their lives improved. Improved but not good enough to be satisfied.

[nanheyangrouchuan]

"Perhaps because most Chinese have seen their lives improved. Improved but not good enough to be satisfied."

So you contradict your own support of this 89% claim.

[Pffefer]

I am not satisfied with my own life because there is still a lot of room for improvement, but I could be very satisfied with the way the national government has handled everything, and thanks to it, my life has improved.

Where is the contradiction?

[nanheyangrouchuan]

Nice tap dance, but I'm not buying it and neither are most China realists. I've seen similar polls where Chinese people express satisfaction with their gov't then turn around and complain about the corruption.

Years of indoctrination meeting reality.
Bad China.

[psychiatrist]

In my opinion, Pew & Pfeffer are correct: the majority of Chinese people are satisfied with China today. For nanhey, it is very sour grapes.

[Pffefer]

Nh, you are either dumb or playing dumb. Everybody complaints about corruption because nobody likes it, but a lot of people approve the overall job the government had done.

A clueless laowai is forever a clueless laowai.

[nanheyangrouchuan]

But corruption in any gov't is reason to be dissatisfied, as more reliable polls in other countries show. How can one be wholly dissatisfied with corruption in a gov't yet be satisfied with the same gov't?

And such "china experts" as pfeffer and psychiatrist should know, Chinese will rarely if ever tell strangers their true feelings.

[Pffefer]

Corruption is one of the issues, or one of the many criteria that any government is being judged by. Certainly people complain about corruption, but I'd argue that corruption doesn't impact most people's lives.

What makes you so special that the Chinese tell you what they truly think?

[nanheyangrouchuan]

So is China's massive pollution problem or inability to provide good jobs for post-grads. And the income gap?

Yet the people are satisfied. Compare their lists of individual complaints to this silly poll.

[Pffefer]

Actually those issues do impact people's lives, more so than corruption. But again I am not saying people are completely satisfied, the PEW project revealed that 89% are satisfied with overall job the NATIONAL government has done.

[nanheyangrouchuan]

So even though many are dissatisfied with the central government's ability and/or willingness to deal with their concerns and domestic issues, some of which have a severe impact on their lives (confiscation of private land, gender imbalance, pollution, general corruption, unemployment), 89% approve of the government's performance?

Pretty contradictory, wouldn't you say? That's like saying despite all of the troubles and worries in the US and the US involvement in Iraq, domestic surveillance, job outsourcing, etc, 89% of people still approve of Bush.

Of course you'd say "bullocks" and so would I.

[Pffefer]

Unless you have some concrete evidence showing Pew's data was questionable and the people surveyed were lying. Well?

[rio]

erm, as a rule of thumb, political surveys made by a dictatorship's government about it's own performance should be taken with a wok of salt. If Nanhe had concrete evidence, he'd be either 1 of 2 things ~ a CCP covert intellegence officer, or an expat about to have an unfortunate accident.
Nanhe's made some ignorant, arrogant, under-the-beld, or plainly untrue jabs at China in his past posts, but in this case I think he's got ample reason to be cynical.

Firstly as I said 89% still means over 150 million disapprove. Consistent with the parties ego, and a matter of face, I'd expect pollsters to fudge the numbers to over 90%, thus over 1 in 10. To publish results below 90%, hints that there is signif. enough disapproval in reality that the gov isn't even confident enough to feel they'll get away with a less than 1 in 10 claim. I focus on disapproval rate cus thats the official mentality. Supporters aren't nearly as important as decenters because they do not pose a threat. Its the latter group that is a potential source of social disharmony, and thus the priority concern of officials at any level ~ those who'd most likely to 'Nao shi' and sow disorder. Having to publically admit that more than 1 in 10 Chinese belong to it, likely means its far worse in reality.

Secondly, satisfaction is a relative thing. For many ppl with nothing to compare to but the past, its easy to be satisfied. If you've never tasted orange juice, perhaps you'll be satisfied with murky water, especially if you can still remember times of drought.

Thirdly, there's a character flaw amongst many ppl in China. When 'ling dao' comes, ppl nod and express how fine things are. After he/she leaves, nothing is right, from day to night, sky to ground, head to toe. They always feel they deserve more, never grateful for what they get, see problems everywhere, but never do anything cus its always someone elses responsibility.
Many take this mentality overseas as well, never voting, join interest groups or NGOs, laughing at protesters ~ saying they're too full with nothing better to do, all the while moaning about how their free medicare is so inefficient, and that back in China they could just spend a couple hundred more and get that X-ray done the next day.
The result, is inflated approval rates, exaggerated extent of disatisfaction and the truth somewhere in between.