Dealing with China's changing image

My office assistant just received a packet of T-shirts that she ordered from Taobao, an online retailer. One of the T-shirts reads: Chinese people are not easily bullied!

Taobao is apparently selling these kinds of T-shirts like hotcakes.

Given the rising nationalism in China, it’s not surprising.

And I think it illustrates a larger point of how far China’s public rhetoric distances from the reality of public mood.

I refer to the Journey of Harmony, the global torch relay ahead of the Olympic Summer Games. The torch relay has run into a perfect storm of troubles. And everyone is trying to frame the troubles in a way that befits their world outlook. The fact is, the torch relay has been anything but a journey of harmony.
 
Indeed, just a couple of years ago, China’s Foreign Ministry was talking about the nation’s peaceful rise. And the slogan of the Summer Games is: One World, One Dream.

But some people in the outside world are getting a different image of China. The photo above was taken in Seoul during Sunday’s torch relay there. It shows Chinese students attacking a South Korean man who was critical of China.

It was far from an isolated incident. The headline in the Korea Times yesterday read: Anti-Chinese Sentiment Looms after Torch Relay.

The top of the story said:

Violence by Chinese during the Olympic flame relay in Seoul, Sunday, has ignited anti-China sentiment among Koreans.

The Beijing Olympic torch was successfully relayed from the South to North Korea, supported by enthusiastic Chinese supporters. However, the relay was marred by a clash between human rights activists and an overwhelming number of supporters, which left a sour taste in the mouth of many South Korean citizens.

Before the event, the police's main concern was that rallies by human rights activists to protest China's crackdown in Tibet might disrupt the relay. However, tens of thousands of nationalistic Chinese supporters flocked to streets in Seoul, resulting in an outbreak of violence against anti-Beijing Olympic protestors.

Some, including one Korean journalist, sustained light injuries from the clash in which Chinese expatriates and students hurled rocks, sidewalk blocks and rubbish. Police say they will apprehend those who resorted to violence.

On major portals, Internet users criticized the nationalistic Chinese and shared photos and video clips that show them attacking riot policemen and anti-China activists in a ``foreign country.''

"It's a shame. Those Chinese have completely forgotten the Olympic spirit of peace,'' an Internet user with "ttottia'' said on a Daum message board.

Further down, it read:

Koreans watching the relay were surprised to see the lining up of as many as 10,000 Chinese on streets the flame passed through. About 8,300 policemen were mobilized for the event. Among other questions raised were whether all the Chinese were legal residents or not; how ``foreigners'' could attack citizens of their host country; and why they held a demonstration here, not in Beijing, a Seoul citizen said.

``I started hating Chinese. Why did they do such a horrible thing here? They should go back to their own country,'' Kim Hyun-jin, an office worker in Seoul, said.

Thousands of Chinese, mostly young students, first cheered the torchbearers, singing, chanting and waving posters that said ``We love China'' and ``Go, China.'' But the cheering took on a completely different tone when they met anti-China activists and demonstrators who denounced China's oppression of Tibet and its repatriation of North Korean defectors.

The Chinese supporters pushed through police lines, with some of them hurling rocks, bottled water and plastic and steel pipes at the protesters.

It soon turned into a violent clash that left citizens, riot police officers and anti-China protestors injured. A news photographer was hit over the head and another Korean activist was hurt after being hit by a pipe wrench in the chest.

Ouch! Not good for the peaceful rise image.

Then along comes this link on the Chosun.com website, part of the biggest-selling newspaper group in South Korea. A well-known commentator makes a disagreeable comparison about the current Olympics and a past one:

A political commentator renowned for his sharp tongue has likened the Beijing Olympics to the 1936 Berlin Olympics under Nazi rule after Chinese mobs ran rampant here during the Seoul leg of the Olympic torch relay on Sunday. "China seems to have no intention of making the Olympics a festival that people around the world can enjoy together," Jin Jung-kwon, a lecturer in German language and literature at Chung-Ang University, said in a radio program on Monday. "Instead, it seems it's trying to use it as an opportunity to display its power and bring the whole world under its red flag." Jin said it was "in keeping for people with such thinking to cause open violence in the streets."

"The Berlin Olympics did not aim to promote world peace but to propagandize the Nazis' imperialism," he said, and it was significantly also a period when street violence against minorities was rampant. He added the violence in Seoul caused him to realize how "terrible" the climate in China itself must be, considering that the violent protesters here had already been exposed to a freer society. "It makes me shudder to imagine what is happening in Tibet," he said. The Chinese mobs on Sunday surrounded and beat up Koreans protesting China's violent crackdown on independence protests in Tibet.

Ouch again!
 
Chinese people are angry. The peaceful rise phase is over. Time to look for a new slogan and deal directly with changing world opinion of China. Maybe that T-shirt sums it up: Chinese people are not easily bullied!

Comments

[chanps]

The violent behaviour of the Chinese during the torch relay in Seoul is unacceptable, similiar to the behaviour of protestor grabbing the torch from an invalid torch bearer in Paris. The media should not add it comments to the already volitile situation other than condemning it.

[Mike Lascelles]

I wonder who is responsible for the methods being used by the Chinese to counter the demonstrations agains the Olympic Torch? The same tactics are being seen in Australia, Malaysia, KOrea, Japan etc:
1.Assemble large groups, especially students.
2. Fly the Chinese flag
3. Block flags and verbally/physically harrass demonstrators.

If I was Hu Jintao I would be recommending just the opposite:

1. Encourage small groups, especially older people, children and families.

2. Wave the Olympic flag and flag of the country hosting the relay.

3. Bring groups of Tibetans/monks in national dress who support the games.

4. Encourage activities that pair Chinese and local athletes to support the games.

5. Avoid confrontation with protestors or at least encourage gestures of reconciliation.

China has so far missed a major opportunity with this Olympics to present a modern, progressive and friendly image to the world. Instead, it has shown a hostile, reactionary and violently nationalist face.

[paolang]

Here is a dirty kick, yes, and this kick may deserve 30 hours of community service, probably less. However, according to Tim and his favorite authors, Chinese image is now damaged, Chinese demonstrators are now officially goons and thugs, or at least mobs, and China now is comparable to Nazi Germany, just because of this kick, or maybe several similar kicks.

It is much easier to be an American than to be a Chinese. Being an American, you keep your moral authority (in Nancy's words) even if your fellow Americans mistakenly initiated a war which caused hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. Being a Chinese, you become a Nazi when some stupid fellow Chinese kick.

Nice job, Tim, really revealing.

"how could foreigners attack citizens?" What a great question raised by a wise Korean! It should be the other way around, shouldn't it?

[paolang]

Mike,

If China's image really becomes modern, progressive and friendly to the world (by which I mean the developed world, or the first world, in Mao's term, or more accurately, US and her allies, just like Tim always does), some people will be scared. A China with "terrible human rights record" is much easier to handle, or to "bully" (borrowing from the Taobao T-shirt).

[YouAreRacist]

A political commentator renowned for his sharp tongue has likened the Beijing Olympics to the 1936 Berlin Olympics under Nazi rule after Chinese mobs ran rampant here during the Seoul leg of the Olympic torch relay on Sunday. "China seems to have no intention of making the Olympics a festival that people around the world can enjoy together," Jin Jung-kwon, a lecturer in German language and literature at Chung-Ang University,

The world will never be in peace if people like him spewing rubbish all the time. How can a few Chinese represent China? Paris anti-torch protesters did every thing those Chinese did and more. Nobody bothered to report and nobody bothered to critize.

I just want to say, if you want to go the Olympic you go and if you don't want you don't. Stop holding China hostage by a game.

My man has a funny idea that China should cancel the game after everybody already in Beijing. That will be great if China can refuse to host rude guests.

[YouAreRacist]

"And I think it illustrates a larger point of how far China’s public rhetoric distances from the reality of public mood."

Very true, but you can't blame all on Chinese. Your "public mood" was terrible to start with and you expected we smiled back, but we are not saints.

[YouAreRacist]

"It's a shame. Those Chinese have completely forgotten the Olympic spirit of peace,''

How hypcritical at this point to blame Chinese about "Olympic spirit of peace"?

Did they criticize the torch snatchers this much? Did any media bother to report assaults on our Chinese torchbearer in wheelchair? It is easy to lecture Chinese about human rights and good behaviors. Get lost.

[YouAreRacist]

...
Among other questions raised were whether all the Chinese were legal residents or not; how ``foreigners'' could attack citizens of their host country; and why they held a demonstration here, not in Beijing, a Seoul citizen said.
...

Why does it even matter whether Chinese is legal or not if they protested repatriation of North Koreans? Why didn't South Koreans take their brothers and sisters of North Korea? It seems that all the problems on earth are created by China. If you are Chinese, it is hard not to feel frustrated a little bit.

Don't get me wrong and all the violences are wrong. If any Koreans happen to drop by, Chinese, at least me, condamn the violences. I can assure you that those youths did not target Koreans per se, they attacked perceived anti-torch people. But wrong is wrong. They probably more agitated after descendants of war criminals attacked Chinese in Jap relay.

...
Among other questions raised were whether all the Chinese were legal residents or not; how ``foreigners'' could attack citizens of their host country; and why they held a demonstration here, not in Beijing, a Seoul citizen said.
...

Why does it even matter that Chinese is legal or not if they protested repatriation of North Koreans? Why didn't South Koreans take their brothers and sisters of North Korea? It seems that all the problems on earth are created by China. If you are Chinese, it hard not to feel frustrated a little bit.

Don't get me wrong and all the violences are wrong. If any Koreans happen to drop by, Chinese, at least me, condamn the violences. I can assure you that those youths did not target Koreans per se.

[Junhui]

"China seems to have no intention of making the Olympics a festival that people around the world can enjoy together" Awesome! I love that line. China tried to clean up Beijing and pumped hundreds of billions of RMB into building the Olympic park and a 3rd airport terminal but it seems that China had "no intention of making the Olympics a festival that people around the world can enjoy together". Brilliant.

As far as the violence in Seoul. The mob of Chinese people who were violent were no different from the violent Tibetan mob in Lhasa. Normally, I am pretty pro-China in a sense but the mob-mentality in Seoul disgusted me. We have PEOPLE beating PEOPLE over clams of legitimacy/right to rule. Neighbors fighting neighbors about who's right? There is so much racism going on that it's starting to become difficult to see if people are just protesting because there is racism or if its because they really care. I honestly hope the Chinese protesters don't lose sight of why they are marching.

I'm saddened by the state of affairs. I am saddened that the the Dalai Lama, whos wisdom is supposed to be as wide as the sea, has not done anything to stop the current state of affairs but continues to perpetuate it. How could some people compare him Gandhi? Gandhi went into fasting to stop violence. Dainzin Gyaco looks very well fed to me.

[Skin Slayer]

``I started hating Chinese. Why did they do such a horrible thing here? They should go back to their own country,'' Kim Hyun-jin,

Tim

hold ur breath and listen tight,i know where u r and wat u doig now in China,and this is definitely the only unofficial warning u may receive from someone who are ordered to keep eyes here pretty much every day. u better take care of ur mouths as well as ur kids, or sth unexpected may come to their way.

[YouAreRacist]

"considering that the violent protesters here had already been exposed to a freer society. "

Yeah, yeah, haven't I seen enough how "free" South Koreans protested and haven't I seen enough how "free" French and "free" Tibetans and paid protesters put on all sorts of antics.

The world is going mad with China bashing and China should cancel the game so we don't get rabies from all the mad dogs.

Personaly, I never care about the Olympics. It is wasteful to build the giant buildings just for a couple of weeks of "fun". Those buildings are completely lack of Chinese flare and are ugly products of "cultural genocide"(borrowed from Lama).

Most Chinese are not big fans of sports. The gov. makes a big deal of it just because Chinese were mocked by Europeans in sports long ago. Most Chinese don't give a damn who jumps higher who runs faster. Human's success has everything to do with the brain and nothing with the muscle

Cancel the Olympic! I know Chinese are patient, but enough is enough.

[paolang]

Tim, that "skin slayer" is not only your enemy, but also my enemy. He should be denounced by all peace-loving people.

[Tim J]

Thanks, Paolang. I'm leaving it on the blog for all to see. Is this the way to reach greater understanding among the peoples of the world?

[MGLWN]

In case you may have somehow missed it "skin slayer", the part after the quote you attribute to Tim where it says "Kim Hyun-jin, an office worker in Seoul, said." means that an office worker named Kim Hyun-jin from Seoul said this, and not Tim. But I see how you could have misunderstood this small detail. Maybe you should scour the office buildings of Seoul for this vile Korean running dog that is single handedly disrupting the balance of Chinese Society.

[joe]

it's disgusting how some chinese behave in other countries... certainly does not help china's image

i understand china's anger over these anti beijing protest but attacking other protesters certainly does not look good

"skin slayer" please get a life you disgusting p.o.s.

[Skin Slayer]

paolang

denounce huh ? i'm fucking scared. so wat? would u piss-loving people have the balls to come over here and boycott me like how we boycott ur media and stores in China? i dare u not. u guys are just buches of back slabbers furtively traducing Chinese people in this shitty corner.and i believe guys like Tim are crowing over the critics agaist Chinese people and all the mess they have caused going on in China. let's just get it right ,it's not typically the chinese people that bully but the totalitarian CCP government. u better get this straight, otherwise u may have real problems at hand.

[MGLWN]

"it's not typically the chinese people that bully but the totalitarian CCP government"

I think 99.9% of the world felt this way prior to the Olympic torch anti-demonstration demonstrations but are now having to rethink this assumption.

I'm just still not entirely sure what the anti-demonstration demonstrators are trying to achieve by bullying demonstrators in such an ugly fashion, is it purely out of anger, a scare tactic, a way to show strength of the Chinese people, something else?

Can you imagine the international backlash (not to mention riot situation) if 10,000 flag waving Japanese protested in Beijing and attacked locals who didnt agree with their viewpoints? I think China is getting a free pass on this and should stop talking about how the international community is being unfair and is out to get them, as it appears quite the opposite judging by how the Seoul events aren't being covered as heavily in the Western press.

[Jongseong]

Koreans weren't really interested in the torch relay to begin with. I'm living in Seoul and I didn't even know the relay leg was taking place on Sunday. So many of us were completely taken by surprise by the display of violence against protesters, riot police, and bystanders.

Now, us Koreans have our own faults; we're quite nationalistic as well, and I've been seeing an outpouring of xenophobic anti-Chinese sentiment here in the last couple of days. I want to call for calm on both sides, but I really would like to know what the Chinese were thinking. Didn't they see that this was a surefire way of generating an anti-China backlash?

[A B]

I do think issues on this blog have so inflamed people that a sensible discourse is no longer possible.

When it gets to that stage, extremists of all stripes tend to drive out the moderates.

Perhaps it is time for the blog owner to shut down comments for a cooling off period.

[YouAreRacist]

"1. Encourage small groups, especially older people, children and families."

Terrible and dangerous idea. They would be easily victimized and no one would bother to report and sensationalized
it, or they deserve to be attacked becuause they are ugly Chinese and the attackers would never be called "thugs".

In Paris, anti-Chinese protesters threw rocks, bottles and food. They spitted on Chinese students and called them "Killers". They didn't even let go Chinese torchbearer in wheelchair. Wave after wave, a white pig pulled her hair and Tibetan thugs almost toppled her wheelchair and she was scratched and bruised. All torchbearers were in danger of burn by the flame snatchers. Where was the outrage then? "World" leaders started to threaten boycott becuase China crackdown on murderous riot in Tibet. Am I going mad of the world going mad?

2. Wave the Olympic flag and flag of the country hosting the relay.

Poor Chinese, should only show their love to their country in China and outside China, they better wave other people's flag for other people when they don't even bother to wave themselves. I agree that it is better to wave more Olympic flags. Most Chinese don't care that much about the Olympic games ant The rally for "torch protection" was triggered by the outrage and disgust of Paris leg. It was easy to organize students in short time and the flags were donated by Netzens(?). I don't know how easy to get that many Olympic flags, or any flags because the rally was organized in a rush.

Say no to bullies and refuse to host the Olympic!

[YouAreRacist]

``I started hating Chinese. Why did they do such a horrible thing here? They should go back to their own country,'' Kim Hyun-jin,

To Koreans, we love Koreans. My best friend in colooge in China was a Korean Chinese. There are millions of them in China and we get along fine. It is mistaken to think that the violences in Seoul was out of Korean hatred anf it was really about the bitter taste in Chinese had been building up ever since the relay started back in March.

Since no one was seriously hurt, the media there should tone down the anti-Chinese rhetoric, at least get condomnation of the violences from Chinese side.

For Japs, they "regret" about bad behaviors of a couple of Chinese. It is fine if they "regret" for their descendant of war criminals injured four Chinese, too. Everything Japanese in China should be smashed into pieces. Wish the global warming flood them all.

Refuse to host Olympic!

[Kirk]

Hi Tim,

Please don't shut down the comments!

I do think AB has a point about inflamation and cooling off (certainly given insults and threats of violence toward you and other journalists, which until now I had only heard about), but I've learned a great deal from comments on this blog, and they add many layers of additional insight that are hard to find just anywhere. Opinions expressed here have been deeply varied and deeply complex.

In any case, thanks for hosting what's been posted so far.

As for that picture, I think I saw it elsewhere from the opposite angle. It's definitely a dramatic portrait.

China's image is definitely changing. Sometimes, for better; sometimes for worse. From what I hear from friends and family, China's image seems to be a generally positive one, or at least a hopeful one. Though since the torch began its run, the reactions I mostly hear are confused and curious more than anything especially negative. Nobody has been complaining about China to me, rather, they consistently ask for clarification and information about what's going on. Which leads me to conclude that even though the torch has encountered trouble, it has done a fantastic job of stirring up curiosity, which was already on the rise. And that makes me hopeful, since curiosity has a greater chance of leading to understanding and the prevention of further violence than ignorance.

[jeff]

Just for those who are interested in the different subcultures in China. You can easily see Shanghai-ness arguing and cursing each other from morning till dawn without showing their fists. For Northeaster neighboring Korea, you will often find them in hospital after exchanging only couple words. I bet most of those students in South Korea are from northeast China, many of them might be Korean ethnic group of Chinese. I suspect there are that many Chinese interested in learning Korean language.

[jeff]

Tim

You can just ignore those troubled hatred people here. You are welcomed by majority Chinese people to show them a different opinion. It can only do Chinese good rather than bad. Keep up your good work.

[Junhui]

I was reading the comment done by Kirk "Nobody has been complaining about China to me, rather, they consistently ask for clarification and information about what's going on." This is true on my part as well. But we have to remember the ones that want clarification are not the ones out there protesting.

The ones that are protesting don't really know the issue other than "free tibet" and "human rights". When asked why they protest, they all basically say the same things "free tibet" and "tiananmen" this and that.

It surprises me that some people who are very adamant about the issue (the protesters) choose to ignore facts and formulate their own.

I have noticed though our media has played down the violence in Lhasa and Paris but kicked up the violence in Seoul to another level.

[Y]

I do not think those students were targeting the Koreans. I note the news says that the majority of Koreans are not even interested in the event, and thus probably did not show up at all.

But the unnecessary acts of the students against North Korean refugee protestors do give people an opportunity who are thirsty to draw some deep and profound observations about this olympic relay and on the peaceful rise of china. It's sad to see how little it takes for people to add another layer of complications to this already confusing situation.

"One world, one dream", I do not see anything wrong with this slogan, unless somebody feel uncomfortable about the fact that it is China who comes up with this first.

I think I am leaving this blog at least for a while. As another reader pointed out, we have seen the headline picuture already, but from a different angle.

[Y]

The first sentence of my previous comment should be:

I do not think those students were targeting the Koreans just as those pro-tibet protestors were not targeting the olympic torch and torch-bearers.

[Jongseong]

If you think the protesters choose to ignore facts and formulate their own, don't know the issue but keep repeating slogans, then fine. Many people would say that about many protesters on a diverse range of issues. As a Seoul citizen you get used to seeing protests that you don't agree with, sometimes with great passion. But you don't mob them and respond with violence just because you don't agree with them.

That's the basic issue here, that a small number of Chinese people are having trouble accepting different opinions and think it is patriotic to resort to violence and intimidation. Is it because the Chinese are so convinced that they are right and the protesters wrong that they felt the need to follow Tibetan protesters all the way into a hotel lobby where they were seeking safety to beat them? That will not convince anyone in the world that your views are correct.

I am deeply saddened by all this because my family lived in China for two years and I want a good relationship between Koreans and Chinese. Koreans have an unfortunate tendency to overreact to crimes committed by foreigners in Korea, and that's one reason they are really angry about the violence perpetrated by a minority of Chinese students. But the Chinese are at fault, too, for thinking that the world is against them. The world doesn't have a single opinion, but a diverse range of opinions, and some people may even choose to protest to express those opinions that are different from yours. We need to learn to live with that.

There certainly may be media bias, as many Chinese claim (and I'm inclined to agree). But it would really hurt the Chinese people to take those opinions as a sign that the world hates China, and hate the world because of it. If you have that victimized mentality, you won't even recognize yourself becoming the aggressor and making actual enemies.

[ABC]

South Koreans are bit nationalistic and will over-react to anything that hurts their national pride. This is understandable given the historical burdens for Koreans: 50 years of colonization by Japanese and division of Korean peninsula. I always feel sorry for Korean people when I study their history.

But there is also economic reason for this strong back-slash in Korea. Korean's newspapers have been propagating "China Threat" for quite a while before the protest. When China first established diplomacy with South Korea in 1992, most Koreans held favorable opinions about China. The sentiment towards Chinese has been gone sour since Koreans faced strong competition from Chinese in their pillar industries such as ship building, textile, electronics, steel, and auto.

The theme of media bias again played a role here in inflaming the volatile situation in Korea. Both Western and Korean media picked on Chinese. For example, most violent protesters in Paris are not French people. They were from different western countries. Yet the media did not pick on this.

Koreans and Chinese people have been good neighbors for thousands of years. For most of the time in history we are getting along quite well. I hope we can continue to be good neighbors.

[A B]

jeff,

"Just for those who are interested in the different subcultures in China."

Right ON!

Anyone remember the protests against the South Korean government under General Chun Doo-hwan will have no doubt about how aggressive Koreans are.

Non-violent protests are not in their system until very recently.

It is not for no reason that they are often called the, grin, Irishmen of Asia.

The pro-China and pro-Tibet protesters are just doing the local thing...

[Ted]

Every time an athlete from the PRC wins a gold medal I will give a copy of the Art of Happiness, a photo of the Dalai Lama, or a copy of Mao: the Untold Story to a chinese friend.

[jeff]

A B

The reason I said that most of those students might be Korean Chinese is Korean Language are only offered in the northeast area. There is a large population of ethnic Korean in that area. Korean language is one of the official language. I don't think Korean Language are offered in other area. People from that area are tough, but can make very good friend.

[A B]

There is a huge diversity of ethnic / religious mixes in China.

Go to any city bigger than 30,000 population, and you will find several denominations of Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, and many more.

Likewise for ethnic mixes.

In many ways, China is more diverse than the United States because it has been a major civilization for so long that people came from all over and stayed.

Koreans, like Irishmen, can become quite likeable once you realize they have certain buttons. But then, I never had the pleasure of sharing a wagon with an Irishman, or been on the wrong side of a Korean argument.

[Pffefer]

Tim,

The following is from the Chinese version of Chosun Ilbo, "与中国群众发生冲突的地点集中在圣火传递活动的起跑地点奥林匹克公园和平广场和终点首尔广场周围，在其他路段，则没有发生特别的骚乱" found here: http://chn.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/04/29/20080429000008.html Apparently the rock-hurling, people-kicking violence and the skirmish between the pro-China demonstrators and anti-China protesters mostly took place at the start and finish of the torch relay. I don't know exactly what happened, but I'd think the pro-China thugs were a minority within the pro-China demonstrators. So think twice before you start claiming that "It was far from an isolated incident" and painting all the pro-China demonstrators in the same brush.

Isolated or not, what happened in Seoul was ugly, shameful and downright despicable, there is no excuse whatsoever for what they did. I hope the South Korean government would track down those who were responsible, prosecute them and kick them out of the country. The Chinese should apologize to the South Koreans.

Jeff, I wouldn't quickly assume that those thugs were from northeastern China or Josenjok (Korean Chinese). I doubt any Korean Chinese would feel that patriotic toward China to beat the South Koreans.

Mi'anhamnida, Jongseong-si!

[Pffefer]

Jeff,

You'd be surprised how many Chinese study in South Korea, certainly not as many as South Koreans studying in China, but still quite a lot. I too have been wondering why they would choose to study in South Korea. Because they couldn't go to the US, Canada, Europe or Japan?

As for learning in Korean in China, actually a lot of teenage Chinese girls are religiously learning it, thanks to "Hanryu".

[Pffefer]

To Jongseong and other South Koreans:

미안합니다!

[Eve]

Some of this mob activity reminds me of first hand accounts I've read of the Cultural Revolution, a time when many Chinese let their emotions run away with them, encouraged by the government. I know so many wonderful Chinese people but know any people can get out of control as a group. I wonder how Americans would react if this was happening to a torch relay for an Olympics held in the U.S.? I remember so much rhetoric after 9/11, people running around with flags on their trucks and condemning people with a different opinion. What we are seeing is human nature, not Chinese. Still the world needs to point out that this is not acceptable.

[jeff]

The Kung Fu he used in this picture does look like northern style. It indeed looks bad. And many those young students here don't even bother to chant American Anthem and wave American flag. It does play into the hands of many people. They don't have these kind of demonstration experiences. It is a learning process for them.

[ABC]

The kick is more like Tae Kwon Tao.

[Jongseong]

So we're the Irishmen of Asia? I only hope we're as popular as the Irish with the rest of the world. :)

As some of you point out, even though I myself am too young to remember it, violent protests were a feature in Korea until a mere generation ago. (Although I don't like people perpetuating this stereotype... We did work hard to end violent protests.) What Koreans have trouble acknowledging or recognizing is that we have had these same nationalistic mob tendencies to act emotionally and lash out at opposition in the past.

And we also have a tendency to be overly critical of actions of foreigners in Korea. In 2002, there were massive anti-American protests held because US troop vehicles ran over 2 Korean schoolgirls. I don't think the reaction would have been the same if these were Korean troop vehicles that caused the accident... So yes, there is a double standard. This is something we need to work on. It really colours our attitude toward the great powers like China and the US. Koreans often think they are pushed around by the great powers. This is not just Koreans - anti-Americanism in varying degrees has been a mainstay in the world for years, and as China rises, anti-Chinese sentiment will also rise. That seems to be an inevitable cost of becoming a great power...

I hope Koreans will have the sense to condemn the violence but not tar the entire Chinese people with the same brush because of a few unfortunate thugs. Hopefully, both Koreans and Chinese can use this as a learning experience. Thanks for the apologies, and I would also like to apologize on behalf of Koreans that some Koreans overreacted and flamed the situation.

[Davidharwe]

I am thinking about the media image that defined China to the outside world some 19 years ago: the phalanx of tanks, the lone citizen like a pillar of calm and sanity, the impending terror. We saw two Chinas: the people and the Party. We knew where our hearts stood, we knew whose side we were on.

Now things are not so simple. I want to believe that the majority of Chinese people want their government to respect human rights, I want to believe that as things get better for China economically social benefits will accrue to all, rich and poor, city and countryside, Han and minority. I want to believe that China will make strides toward curbing fossil fuel emissions. I want to believe that the Chinese people will eventually be allowed to have a plurality government.

Ultimately. it is up to the Chinese people to make these things happen. But now what happens in China no longer stays in China -- the whole world is involved, from Zimbabwe to Venezuela. When we saw the man in front of the tanks, that wasn't the case. The media circus surrounding the Olympics is the price China pays to join the club of major powers. Chinese nationalism is really no different than any other nationalism, American, Japanese, Israeli: "the last refuge of the scoundrel." What's different is China's power and what that nationalism represents to the rest of the world.

I think we in the West mourn that old image, so clear in it's division of right and wrong, the corruption of power vs. the courage of the citizen standing up for the people, the truth. Perhaps we were naive. And now we too are paying the price, for our naivete, our blind faith in free markets and globalization.

Oh, Skin Slayer, I'm sorry you're having trouble with your sexual drive, the impotence and erectile dysfunction. You should really see a doctor.

[newmex]

a glitch: that last comment was posted by newmex, but you can call me Davidharwe.

[Rod]

"Peaceful Rise" is only one of the several options that China has at its disposal when it comes to choosing its grand strategy to rise to the top of the food chain in the world of nations. If China's ascent to super power status can be achieved through peaceful means without having to resort to violence and destruction, it would be good for China, and the rest of the world too; if however China is left with no choice but to pursue a revisionist and violent path in its rise to the top of the hierarchy of nations, destroying everything in its path, including humanity itself, that is one of the unpleasant consequences that the rest of the world would have to swallow. Tant pis!

[Bill]

Think way back to the Boxer Rebellion, and you will understand what happened in the dying days of the Qing Dynasty.

[Bill]

"They probably more agitated after descendants of war criminals attacked Chinese in Jap relay."

That's a good one. This justifies saying "All Chinese are extremely violent." or "All Chinese eat dogs." or "All Chinese spits and urinates in public."

[chanps]

Anyone can tell me under what title where Tim posted the picture and his comments on the protestor attacking the invalid torch bearer in Paris. Like to read that.

[James]

I think this is becoming a very disturbing trend across Asia. Lots of Chinese including especially Chinese from the mainland are investing and moving into other Asian countries, both in East Asia and Southeast Asia. Unfortunately, they often act like they own the country. Now they say that Tibet was, is and always will be part of China. They are also beginning to argue that Korea, in past history, or some kingdoms of Korea was, is and always will be part of China. Same goes for Malaysia, South China Sea islands, etc. etc. The Chinese have become the new ugly Chinese (as opposed to ugly American) since I have seen time and again, they have the gall to abuse the citizens of the Asian countries they visit. This is not only in Korea, but all throughout Asia. Its time that the rest of non-Chinese Asia band together and teach these rude nouveau-riche Chinese upstarts a lesson. South Korea could start by prosecuting some of these Chinese rioters and calling the Chinese embassy with its affiliated student associations to task for organized violence in the South Korean capital

[James]

In contrast I would say that the Australians are becoming nicer and nicer in Asia and the Chinese uglier and uglier. Between the US and Europe vs China as a power in Asia, I would pick the US and Europe anytime. At least they have some idea of democracy, human rights and decency in spite of their sometimes flawed application of these concepts, while China seems to offer nothing in terms of democracy and dignity in its model of growth and its so called non-interference means we Chinese support dictatorial leaders with money and bribes, which gives us Chinese the right to step on and exploit all the ordinary citizens in your country. You know that years ago, perhaps ten years ago, I would have cheered for China, but seeing what a group of arrogant racists the Chinese have become, to the point of being racist against fellow Asians, I now think that Chinese imperialism will be much much worse for the whole of Asia, and will simply be the era of the despotic domination of the Han.

[SiberiaTiger]

jeff,

"You can easily see Shanghai-ness arguing and cursing each other from morning till dawn without showing their fists. For Northeaster neighboring Korea, you will often find them in hospital after exchanging only couple words. I bet most of those students in South Korea are from northeast China, many of them might be Korean ethnic group of Chinese. I suspect there are that many Chinese interested in learning Korean language."

Don't speak ill of Northeast people. We don't often show fists at all, though we might have a little bit temper and fire. We are more of straight talking than physically aggressive. I don't mind Shanghaiists wimp and whine; I just dislike them being wicked and snobbish, at least some of them. If you ask them for direction, they might direct you to a dead end. They got or getting rich by exploiting cheap migrant labors, but they treat them like shits. Whoops, I am talking ill of Shanghaiists, sorry.

If it is hot to learn Korean in China, "the kick" probably has no Northeast connection. Otherwise, "the kick" might well be Korean Chinese style. To my surprise, my husband loves the kick. Korean or Chinese, it is great to him either way. I guess it is the guy way to vent some frustration.

[Junhui]

"Now they say that Tibet was, is and always will be part of China." Hrmm. I think you missed the point. Claming Tibet as a part of China is not a recent thing.

Yes, there are some pretty arrogant Chinese out there. But there are also arrogant Europeans and the like. Distinguishing "Asians" from the rest of the world in it self is an act of racism and racial profiling. There are age old grudges each nation holds (The Turks and the Greeks for example), China should not be expected to be different. I will admit that ALL the people in the east hold LONG grudges not just the Chinese. You point out that the Chinese (seemingly as the people as a whole) are "arrogant racists". I find that your post is spewing with hypocrisies. I've never heard of segregation in China or an apartheid.

I laugh at the arguable sense of "dignity" you have placed on the idea of democracy. I don't know about you, but I live in the United States. When Gore ran for president; he won the popular vote but lost the election. The system is flawed and those who vote as representatives of the people don't represent people anymore. They represent corporations. Accepting bribes and monies. Yes, the politicians do that in China too. But unfortunately for them, China is not as forgiving. In addition, FREEDOM of religion has made our "separation of church and state" laughable matter in the United States. All laws revolve on the religious views of our leaders. At least in China, religion tends to be a VERY minor part in decision making if at all.

There is nothing inherently flawed about how the Chinese run things except for the fact that they don't offer what we in the states call FREEDOM. China is in fact run on a representation system. Representatives select the next leader which can only serve a limited number of terms. Yes, it is a one-party system but it is NOT a dictatorship as most would have us believe.

Fortunately, the government has slightly loosened up its grip. China is more free today than it was 50 years ago. 50 years from now it will most likely be even more free. These are all apart of the growing pains of a great nation.

The United States did not grow overnight. There were many human rights violations in the first 150 years. I hope that has not faded in the minds of any of us here. The current China has been around for less than 100 years and it has made its share of mistakes. The point is to allow China to correct their own mistakes. Instead of telling it what to do. Don't you get it? The Chinese don't enjoy being told what to do. They had enough of that when Western powers divided China up after the Opium war. NO one likes to be told what to do.

In addition, lets not take the mistakes of a few and place judgment on the mass. No government is without flaw no peoples are without bias. I have Korean friends that I sit around with all day telling racist jokes but at the end of the day, we're all still friends.

[SiberiaTiger]

james,
james,

"South Korea could start by prosecuting some of these Chinese rioters and calling the Chinese embassy with its affiliated student associations to task for organized violence in the South Korean capital"

Calm down and read it carefully. How many people were injured, despite the sensational rhetoric?

Four Chinese were injured in Japan and nobody screamed bloody murder.

[Dknight]

Hah, and people are calling for democracy in China. Now you see what the Chinese government has to deal with?

Until Chinese people change, and they will with prosperity and education, the Chinese cannot have democracy and need a strong heavy handed government. How else do you keep these thugs in line.

The west got it wrong, it's the Chinese mainlanders who are thugs and goons, not the government.

[nanheyangrouchuan]

Now everyone knows the true nature of Mordor, also known as China!

Chinese students aren't capable of fighting one on one, they are just scrawny little fag boys who gang up on people and Chinese students think that they are the only ones who have the right of free speech.

These little emperors are typically bad employees who can only memorize lots of useless facts.

Free speech does not include freedom to attack.

China is a dirty pig fucking nation that must be burned to the ground!

Worst of all, the Chinese embassies around the world organized these mass gatherings of "shit youth". The world could easily solve its "China problem" by throwing out Chinese consulates, embassies, students and razing Chinatowns.

[SiberiaTiger]

pfferef,

"I doubt any Korean Chinese would feel that patriotic toward China to beat the South Koreans."

I want to beat South Koreans for I am feeling patriotic to China, kind of odd logic.

[Y]

OK, I cannot help even though I said I am leaving this blog. This is really becoming a world people's choir, and interesting.

SiberiaTiger, good points. We, the Northwest people, do not like Shanghaiis either. But do not talk in the way like you are perfect. You guys drink too much alcohol.

[chanps]

nanheyangrouchuan
Look at this from another angle, after the rioting and burning in Lhasa.....
"Now every one knows the true nature of Shangrila..also known as Tibet.
Tibetan students not capable of fighting one on one, they are just scrawny little fag boys who gang up on people and Tibetan students think they are the only one who have the right of free speech.
These little monks are typically bad employees who can only memorise lots of useless facts.
Free speech does not include the freedom to attack.
Tibet is a dirty******nation that must be burn to the ground.
Worst of all, the Dalai Lama clique around the world organized these mass gatherings of "shit monks". The world could easily solve its "Tibet problem" by throwing out Free Tibet organisations,Tibetan symphatisers, students and razing all Tibetan towns."
Sounds familiar?

[Kirk]

Actually, my comment about the opposite angle on the kick picture was pretty literal, though the allusion to varying media angles is certainly worth consideration (sorry for the long link):

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080430/photos_wl_afp/61503dcdfe9c7a8a77d50520f65cc607/

[James]

Well, interestingly I live in both America and Asia and I am a natural born American. I am even part Chinese, though not majority Chinese in my ancestry. Growing up in America, I have seen the bad part of America with all the discrimination against Asians and so on. Thats why ten years ago and even longer ago I cheered for China to rise as a counterbalance to the Western powers. But now seeing the behavior of the Chinese especially the mainland Chinese who even discriminate against foreign born Chinese, I can say that I would accept America with all its faults rather than be under the rule of anyone or any government from mainland China. You know it may be interesting because some of you Chinese bloggers might be my ninth, tenth, or 20th cousin, just like George Bush and Barack Obama are ninth cousins through Barack's grandmother, but having seen the behavior of Chinese bloggers and even the ultranationalistic mobs that beat up the South Koreans and others, I must say that you make the Caucasians and the West look good. You don't realize that your behavior today is so repulsive that you make people who should have been your natural allies hate you, because of your actions and attitudes. Sure America's not perfect, but someone like Barack Obama could still run for president. Could a Tibetan or a Uighur or even a foreign born Chinese ever reach such a high position in China? You know if these Chinese protesters did these things in China, they would be dead.

[James]

Also, i have read that the Chinese mobs in this case attacked elderly South Koreans. How can China expect to be the leader in Asia, when its youth or little emperors, junk the most basic of Asian values, which is respect of elders. You know in Asian families, thats very very important.

[lisi]

Tim,

You forgot to put these two pictures up.

http://tinyurl.com/5zbmh7

http://tinyurl.com/6ehzz7

[Jarrod]

James, it's very interesting how you choose to explicitly single out "mainland Chinese" for their supposedly crude behaviors and discrimination of foreign born Chinese. Such an oversweeping generalization does more to discredit your otherwise sincere and reasonably stated viewpoints.

First of all, the majority of mainland Chinese do not discriminate against foreigners or foreign-born Chinese. If anything, they are more interested in finding out about the latter's experiences abroad when they run into them. Secondly, why make the distinction between mainland versus non-mainland in the first place? Sure there are differences, but if you are referring simply to crude behavior and xenophobic attitude, do you not realize that some of the biggest Chinatowns around the world have for many decades suffered a horrendous public image due to unsanitary conditions, rudeness to locals (perceived as being somewhat racist), and loud speaking (perceived as heckling) in the streets. I can assure you the vast majority of residents/business people in these places have been non-mainland Chinese.

So James, please refrain from making such a divisive distinction. Many pro-Olympics demonstrators were not from the mainland. Do not allow the hooliganism of a small percentage of students from the mainland form your perception towards all mainland Chinese. But I suspect you might have had this subtly embedded attitude for quite some time now having mostly been around non-Chinese or non-mainland Chinese. Sorry if this speculation is off. I can assure you I mean nothing but to convey my view in a sincere and open way.

[Y]

James,

Glad to know you are lving in America. Just in case you do not know, check this out:

http://media.gatewayva.com/photos/rtd/special/ibook/index.htm

One may wonder what they were protesting against. In fact, these civilized people were trying to buy used laptop from a public school.

So, everybody, stop. Go back to work, then we will find that life is not that bad as people have been trying to portrait to us.

[LZ]

way to go, you finally got what you wanted right?! Journalists like you who thrive on chaos and sensationalism, how can anything be peaceful and harmonous. westerners like you gets off on inciting conflicts, blowing them up and then when things get out of hand, reporting it to renew the cycle. The more you write, the more ignorance, irresponsiblity and arrogences I see. Good for self promotion but bad for everyone else. Is there any western journalists who operates in a different M.O.?

[Pffefer]

Nh, if you want to burn China to the ground, you should do something. You can bomb Zhongnanhai, Tiananmen, The Great Hall of People etc. Or you can bomb the Olympic games venues. Do something instead of just shitting around using your keyboard.

And you can certainly petition to the US government to round up all Chinese nationals, bulldozing Chinatowns and the Chinese Embassy and consulates. Where is the petition?

Tim, what's nh's IP? I think I should report him to 全国扫黄打非办公室. Help me will ya? :-)

[Pffefer]

James,

Your accusations are far-fetched. The Chinese government argues that Koguryo, the ancient Korean kingdom was part of Chinese history because China views everything happened within its current border/territory components of Chinese history. Personally I think it's nuts to deny that Koguryo was Korean, of course it was. I am thinking the Chinese government is preparing for the worst case scenario after the two Koreas unify--the urge to recover "lost territories" as some South Korean nationalists want to. Also they are worried about a exodus of North Korean regufees- aka "talbukja" into northeastern China. I think the Chinese government is paranoid and they should not have anything to fear. Koguryo was annihilated by Tang and Silla some 1300 years ago. I don't think the unified Korea has any chance to "recover" anything. Meanwhile, no Chinese has claimed that Korea was, is and will always be part of China. Korea has been an indepedent nation for thousands of years.

I am not aware of any territorial claim China has for Malaysia, please enlighten me. As for those islands and islets on the South China Sea, keep in mind there are a bunch of countries claiming them: In addition to China, you have the ROC/Taiwan, Malaysia, Vietnam, the Phillippines, even Brunei.

I agree what SOME Chinese students did in Seoul was despicable and they should be brought to justice. However, don't extrapolate by saying all mainland Chinese are thugs or racist. How are the Chinese racist to other Asians? What did the Chinese do to make the US and the west look good? The west was terrorizing and enslaving the whole world for more than two centuries. The US has recently invaded two sovereign nations, directly and indirectly causing the demise of hundreds and thousands of people. Wake up the smell the coffee, kiddo!

[SiberiaTiger]

...
One of the T-shirts reads: Chinese people are not easily bullied!
...

Perfect narrative for the picture!

The guy was giving a great kick in the spirit of Bruce Lee. There is a picture online in which the "victim" was holding the bike over his head in front of "Bruce Lee". If he attacked "Bruce Lee" with the bike, don't you agree he got away easy with just a kick and the kick was completely justified?

I say, give our young people a break. There were plenty of provocations from South Koreans, hitting Chinese with Korean flags(video), carrying clubs(picture, might have been used to attack Chinese). South Koreans are very xenophobic to Chinese even though about a million of them living in China.

Netizens are trying to collect evidence that might help to defend "Bruce Lee" and others.

[justsomelaowai]

"China: too big to be bullied, too smart to be manipulated."

--A former American diplomat in China

I wish we could all just take it a bit easy. No one is perfect. We Americans are in no position to lecture the Chinese about race relations when the black minister of one of our presidential candidates
can say things like "God Damn America" or that the U.S. government created the AIDS virus in order to kill blacks and can be cheered by a "moderate" black group like he NAACP...apparently we are not so perfect after all.

[Stan]

As I recall your assistant was bullied by Chinese guards in your office complex. She gives crediblity to the saying.."People who bite the hand that feeds them, Lick the boot that kicks them". She should run that up the flagpole that up her blind patriotism salutes every day.

[Monkish]

The somewhat hastened and thus unexpected outcome of the Tibetan protester's plan to exploit expected lopsided Western media coverage to build Western sympathy towards the Tibetans and Western resentment towards Han Chinese is now evident.

They are successful with their expected goals. However, most young Chinese who are usually lay-back and focus all their energy on study, work, business, personal and family success instead of politics are now coalescing under their nationalistic pride.

The heightened tension between Tibetans, Chinese and the West is upon us - thanks to the aiding and abiding of the Western press to fan the flame. Biased words and reporting carry impact.

The seeds sown today will mean more unrest and strife down the road. Such is how human beings in their innate delusion keep generating suffering in the world.

Too bad the Dalai Lama cannot make his Tibetan followers and the Chinese government understand the Buddha teaching of the Four Noble Truths.

[carry anne]

Hi,
I don't know about most mainland Chinese, but I think it is pretty obvious what the torch symbolizes for the CCP. It is cosmetic surgery for a regime doing it's utmost to coerce the international community into taking it's side. It seems like a lot of Chinese did not know that the CCP was doing a large international propaganda campaign before any of this torch stuff. The CCP has a lot of power over gov'ts and businesses all over the world. So the torch was really being used in this way by the CCP.

It seems that the mainlanders did/do not know about this. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that the CCP has coercive relations with powerful orgs all over and is hosting the Olympics to gain status and more bargaining power. What does the CCP want from people the world over? To keep it's rights record under cover, to protect the CCP from this type of criticism, especially from rocking the boat inside China.

I think this is a huge issue that is overlooked and it is hard to discuss without realizing the vast difference in perspectives.

For example, some Chinese will think it is unfair the way people report on Tibet as the innocent victim. But don't they realize the way the west perceives the plight of Tibetans? The western people have seen them as a repressed people taken over and treated terribly by an authoritarian regime. So it should be no surprise that the Western media has certain bias, it is not new, it is old.

It's also very strange that in all of this the CCP is not directly addressed. Afterall, they are the ones accused of indoctrinating the Chinese and repressing the Tibetans, so I am just wondering what are the real issues here.
Come see my new blog (-:

[jeff]

Carry Anne

Many of what you said are true. China belong to the Chinese people, not CCP. Chinese people don't like to exchange their territorial integrity for whatever beautiful things anyone have to offer. They don't like anyone to try to split there country.

[James]

Thank you everybody for your kind and well thought out posts. I think that one thing i have learned from being exposed to people of all races is that we all have our problems of racism in our ethnic communities. Its just that sometimes in times of great tension or struggle we tend to generalize. You know that Barack was right in his race speech. In many Asian communities for example, and that includes even my own family, there is racism against African Americans. This disturbs me since I have a lot of African American friends, but its still true, just like when Barack says that his own white grandmother can still be a loving person while expressing deep animosity towards blacks. There are some very nice mainland Chinese people who are not arrogant. However in recent years, as China has risen, there seems to have been a rise in arrogant sentiment among some Chinese. There even has been some tension, sometimes documented in sociological studies that show tension between the new brash Chinese mainland immigrants and older sectors of the Chinese community that have been around for generations. Some Asians even perceive the setting up of a so called "yellow hierarchy", sorry for the racist term, but a fellow Asian lady was the first one to use it, where Chinese are on top of the heap above all other Asians, and mainland Chinese who still speak Chinese the best are on the top highest level of the heap. Okay, maybe there are generalizations here, but there are elements of truth in every part of the story I say above. Its part of the Asian ethic that as people rise higher, they are supposed to become more humble, but in the recent Olympic brouhaha, the Chinese who beat up the South Koreans and are now glorifying this action in blogs idolizing the Bruce Lee character, are doing exactly the opposite and turning off other Asians. And turning off everyone in the rest of the world too.

[paolang]

The context of the kick in the picture is this:

http://img1.bbs.163.com/shcd/yi/yifeng221/30e932cf27d57307acfad88223bf1b3c.jpg

[paolang]

I feel sorry for having mistakenly blamed the student who kicks in the front picture.

The media coverage of Chinese students' violence in Seoul is again biased and distorted, as the following picture reveals:
http://i31.tinypic.com/314fskg.jpg

[Rocking]

I've read somewhere that it was the Korean who attacked the Chinese students first, with picture proofs no less. Have you looked into those? Just curious.

[historically@usa]

Chinese are not used to criticism and take it poorly. A reading of their posts here show that well. Their ability to take the abuse and learn from it is horrible.

We Americans are used to criticism and expect it - at home and abroad. Its normal. You can't be a world power and not get it. I expect it. But you don't see me hitting Europeans on the head with pipes or bricks either.

The Chinese are going to have a terrible decade or two until they realize the world doesn't hate them, but its going to chew on their ass wether they like it or not for their problems until they fix them.

[Jarrord]

historically@usa: "...Their ability to take the abuse and learn from it is horrible..."

Interestingly their reactions to western critisms and biased reporting are very much related to a strong awareness of their history of abuse at the hands of colonialist/imperialist powers. If the Chinese were as inflexible and narrow-minded as you believe, they would not have beeb able to transform their country from a backward hole to a world economic power within a span of two decades. It's easy enough to attribute their strong reactions to an inherent inability to accept criticisms and learn from it; however, it's actually because they've all learned way too well about what used to happen when China didn't defend its territorial integrity against outside pressures and attacks.

To be fair, China is still closed-off to the outside world in many ways (e.g. freedom of information/press), but it's ridiculous to ignore how far they've come in terms of opening up and learning from their mistakes when you compare today's China to the xenophobic regime of yonder.

Your point is still very well taken though. But I just think it should be applied to everyone, including North Americans and Europeans. Shouldn't we learn from our recent mistakes in offering blatantly sensationalist and sometimes false news? Shouldn't we learn to offer criticisms in a constructive way that's beneficial to mutual dialogue instead of name callin and China bashing in order to prevent a similar arousal of ultra-nationalistic sentiments from the Chinese? (note I used "we" as an over-generalization to correspond with your references to "Chinese" and "Americans" in general) If we really care about human rights in China, we would not be doing what feels good, but rather what works. Clearly, what we've been doing is not working very well and is actually helping the CCP to further its agenda. May be we should actually listen to the criticisms from the Chinese and try to learn from some valid points to strengthen our tacticc instead of dismissing them as brain washed communist drones.

Btw, if Americans were so capable and seasoned at taking criticisms, how do you explain em "Freedom Fries"?

[nanheyangrouchuan]

@ Jarrod

Are you seriously comparing "freedom fries" with global physical attacks against anyone who says anything negative about China or for Tibet.

China is childish, petty and thin skinned and pulling no punches is the best way to make the Chinese see the light about their own country, which is dirty and bad.

[shenqh]

There were more than four pictures for the incident. The first picture showed the korean guy threw a bicycle to peple, then he was chased by Chinese student. Just like CNN, Tim purposely selected picture to serve his unspeakable purpose.

[Jarrod]

nanheyangrouchuan,

No, I'm not comparing the two. I just said Americans are not as good at taking criticisms as a previous poster had claimed, with or without comparisons to other countries. Why resort to the knee jerking reaction of China-bashing without even seeing the point of my post?

Are you calling a few isolated incidents of physical confrontations in three or four countries (with both Chinese students and anti-China protesters starting their share of fights) "global physical attacks against anyone who says anything negative about China or for Tibet"? You must have a unique definition of "global".

It's people like you with your sensationalism, name calling, and gross over generalizations that hurt the side of the argument you are on.

[shenqh]

The whole set of picture for kicking the korean guy can be found in this link. http://www.backchina.com/newspage/2008/05/01/153568.shtml

　

[paolang]

I don't think "Tim purposely selected picture to serve his unspeakable purpose" as shenqh said. But do hope Tim could see these pictures and understand the context then and the distortions afterwards.

[Douglas]

Democracy as a form of political system has been increasingly employed by the U.S. as a weapon to interfere with the internal affairs of, to bring about a regime change in, and to launch a preemptive strike against, countries which the U.S. does not find to its liking. Even the U.S. itself does not believe the crap it is arduously pushing to sell around the world. It has been ineluctably a tough sell in China too, where the vast majority of the people have realized, out of their own volition, what the U.S. is really up to in imposing those stinky ideas wrapped up in the rotten cerecloth of democracy. To the world community, the talk of democracy and human rights by the U.S. and its allies as though they are the sole champion of those ideals proved to be annoyingly hypocritical and offensive: the U.S. has a brilliant track record of supporting and fostering cruel dictators, despots, military strongmen (such as but not limited to the government of Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines, the shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi of Iran, the government of Park Chung-hee of South Korea, and the cannibal Idi Amin of Uganda; at the same time the U.S. has an equally brilliant track-record of ousting and garroting democratically elected governments around the world and physically eliminating the elected heads of states who were unwilling to become American running dogs, such as Guatemala in the 1950s, Chile in the 1970s. Now, the U.S. is attempting to continue to play the same old tricks it has so skillfully and customarily played in the past in order to over throw the government of Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, the government of Iran because these countries will not heed to U.S. interest. Fortunately, the world has experienced enough to understood completely the American definition of democracy: a country can find peace with the U.S. as long as it follows exactly what it is told to do by the U.S., even if it is a tyranny. Hamas was democratically elected by the Palestinian people, but because Hamas wouldn't take orders from Washington, it is therefore labeled by the U.S. as a terrorist organization. It is more than clear that democracy is promoted by the U.S. only where it advances U.S. interest, just like autocracy is tolerated by the U.S for the sole purpose of serving U.S. interest.

[bemis]

Hey, nanhey: for being maggotty dirt-bag, you yield place to no-one! Congrats.

[Rick]

Just one time, I would like to hear these anti china journalist say this:

"Iam racist and suffer from an acute case of the yellow peril. If ne nation that is not of caucasian majority, it is my job to put them down. I believe that the west is the only civilization to deserve a high standard of living and every cilivization is 2nd class citizens to the point of barbarians. Democracy is the end all to be all. Any global policy is good as long as it favors the west. Free trade is great! as long as its in our favor, but I think it time for tariffs because China is out competing us. Buttom line is I don't like the Chinks, Apu and the Osamas of the world. And I will make a conceited effort to talk as much shit about them as I can cause it makes me feel good inside."

Just one time I would like to have a journalist tell what exactly his position is instead of the "free tibet and communist is evil retoric", for just one time dont hide behind your bullshit. Tim Johnson, if you can put that in your next post, you have my respect.

[Eddie]

"I don't think "Tim purposely selected picture to serve his unspeakable purpose" as shenqh said."

Yeah? Do your read Tim's mind? After reading so many of his posts you still dont think Tim is a China basher, one wants to please his readers and his boss by selectively choosing news, graphics, and opinions to make distorted news? But I do agree with you that Tim should see the following pictures and report the whole story, not just reporting partially to mislead your readers!!!

http://www.backchina.com/newspage/2008/05/01/153568.shtml