Tibetans as second-class citizens

One of the factors in the Tibetan crisis that hasn’t had a good airing is why Tibetans are treated as second-class citizens.

Chinese citizens are generally freer than ever. They can get passports. They can change jobs at will. They can choose where they live and marry whom they wish. Some of that also applies to China’s 56 minority groups. But Tibetans don’t enjoy all the freedoms of other Chinese. They are restricted in their movements within the Tibetan Autonomous Region, frequently turned back at police checkpoints. They can’t get passports very easily, sometimes waiting years and occasionally flatly denied them. It is a similar situation among Muslims in Xinjiang. And when Tibetans and Muslim Uyghurs travel around China now, hotels often deny them rooms. In the run-up to the Olympics, it simply appears to be an unwritten rule that hotels must turn them away.

China has poured huge amounts of development aid into Tibet, and many Chinese wonder why Tibetans aren’t grateful.

This issue of second-class status is one of the reasons. It is not separate-but-equal. It is separate-and-unequal. For many Americans, it evokes still-fresh memories of racial discrimination. The issue came up at a hearing on Tibet Wednesday of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in Washington.

One of those speaking was Lodi Gyari, the special envoy of the Dalai Lama, and a resident of Washington.
   
Gyari brought up the issue of discrimination in getting passports and in checking into hotels to the panel. I've bold-faced two passages below that I thought are relevant:

“If your identity card says that you are Tibetan nationality, you can not even check into any hotel or any accommodation as all other Chinese citizens can do. And if your identity card says that you are Tibetan nationality, you cannot get a passport easily.  On the other hand, the Chinese are just giving passports very easily because they would like the economic advantage to be taken. So what I'm saying is that there is a very dangerous discrimination by the Chinese government to the Tibetans as people. And this is really leading into tremendous animosity between the two peoples. This is of great concern.”

A few minutes later, Sen. Lisa Murkowski, a Republican from Alaska, responded thus:

“And your very specific examples of how through what might be considered a small act -- denying a Tibetan citizen the opportunity to check into a hotel, for instance, might be a small act, but what that action does to further the tension and you used the term ‘ethnic conflict’ that is being built in China through incidents just such as that, or whether it's the issuances of passports. You're treating your citizens differently depending on where they are coming from.  And if you want to further inflame ethnic conflict, you kind of build up through smaller incidents like this and hope others on the outside don't notice.  I think the record should reflect that we're noticing.”

Comments

[Ted]

Tibet has strategic importance to the rest of China as a source of water. Then there are other natural resources to be mined. Tourism is another source of revenue for the CCP assigned to "run" tibet, but then there is the simple fact of Han racism towards the other ethnic minorities.

My chinese tutor told me once that "mongolians are dirty, not the yurts the tourist visit, but if you go inside a regular mongolians yurt you will see that they are dirty"

But I imagine even the grandparents and parents of these little emperors and empresses are growing weary of this sustained infantile temper tantrum.

[whatever]

China should ban all religions.

There's no reason for these mentally unsound individuals to spread unproven claims - gods, alas, buddhas ... etc etc.

Tibetans are being treated like super first class citizens - they have religious freedom; they are allowed to have more children than Chinese families do; the monks spend 10 hours a day chanting BS and expect food and handouts from the Chinese.

If I were China's head of state, I'd do what America did to the native American Indians -- kill off 95% of them and put the rest on small reservations.

Look at those poor native American Indians, they've lost not only their land, power and way of living, they've lost their language and culture.

[jeff]

Maybe I used to live in a different China than you do. Are you reporting in China? How much you know about China? No wonder the Chinese government won't allow you guys to be in Tibet. I bet you guys definitely will tell Hui muslems that their Mosque was burnt and flame Hui to storm Tibetans. Does your God ever teach you something?

[jeff]

Tim, you ruined my good night sleep here in NY. I will prey for you anyway. Please spare those good religious Tibetans. Daliar takes advantage of their religious believe. And He is played as a card by Western world to bargain with Chinese government. Have some consciousness. I spent a year there long time ago. I understand regular Tibetans.

[paolang]

Tim, your conclusion of Tibetans being second-class citizens is drew too easily. You did not mention all the privileges that Tibetans enjoyed why Hans did not. If there is a fact that there has been double checks on Tibetans when they have something to do with foreigners or foreign countries, it is only for the reason of security, not for the reason of discrimination. I believe that after 9/11, the US will be more careful in checking the background of visitors with certain identity. If Dalai and his followers are not trying to provoke the Tibetans inside China, life will be much better for those who live in China. If there is inconvenience for the Tibetans in China, they should blame the Lama. Chinese Government has every reason to enhance national security.
Sometimes you write insightful posts, but this one is biased and shallow.

[Tim J]

Paolang, you mention all the privileges that Tibetans have. Please list them. I am unaware of any other than exemptions on the one-child policy.

[dorje]

I think much of it has to do with the government's fear and ignorance of Tibetans in TAR. Except for Hu Jintao, few top officials have ever been to Tibet. Many have this prejudice against Tibetans, that they are all supporters of the Dalai Lama and that all Tibetans are extremists. Not to mention the close links that Tibetan radicals have with the US government and the enormous amount of support they receive in the West.

Chinese opinions of Tibetans seems to vary quite a bit. Migrant workers living in TAR seem to think that Tibetans are dirty and lazy. But then there's the "Tibetan craze" among China's urban youth that has led to a spike in demand for anything remotely Tibetan. Hui Muslims moved in to meet the increased demand for Tibetan handicrafts, lowering prices and causing much resentment among Lhasa Tibetans.

Then there's "Pu Ba Jia", the 2006 winner of the Chinese version of American Idol. He's becoming quite the rage in China and recently released his first film, a Tibetan version of Shakespeare's Hamlet.

I'm not sure what to believe anymore. Everything I read in the news indicates that Tibetans are an abused and repressed people. It seems that there is much racial tension between Tibetans and Han/Hui Chinese. But then I see this blossoming of Tibetan culture that has overtaken many of China's youth.

What gives?

http://virtualreview.org/china/zoom/478999/purba-rgyal--pubajia---lhasa-tibetan-new-year-show

[A B]

How about a bit of perspective here?

Arab-Americans and / or Muslim-Americans are often given extremely onerous treatment by police in the United States.

They cannot apply for a passport without the application delayed and stalled, and when they present a US Passport on entry, they are treated as terrorists, with every page of their passport scrutinized for where they have been, what they were doing, and then extensively searched. The searches often include having all their computers, cell phones, etc. gone through, and often confiscated and copies of the data made to keep track of what they have done and who they associate with.

Arabs and Muslims have all their places of worship, including Mosques, Churches, etc. all under surveillance, with every means of communications tightly monitored and informants at every location. Even such places like Arab businesses are carefully scrutinized. Bank accounts of Muslims and Arabs are routinely monitored and the information extracted to see if they donate to charitable groups that might be engaged in "terrorist" activities. Even an innocent act like lending an associate a few hundred dollars can be seen as, and used as evidence of a crime called, "providing material support" to terrorists.

Arabs and Muslims are routinely denied halal food and prevented from praying (or practicing their religion) if they are detained by the police, and many hotels will inform police if they check into a hotel.

Wearing traditional clothes or a veil (for the women) in compliance with their religion is almost an invitation to be scrutinized and discriminated against by ordinary Americans on the street. Even such things as having a beard single one out for harassment.

Need I go on?

Or should I say, there are inherent disadvantages when your religious / ethnic group is known to be associated with terrorist or "governments in exile" groups abroad?

Oh..... a lingering election issue is a candidate with the name Hussein.

[Dave]

Uh....Murkowski is from Alaska (AK, not AR).

[cc]

Tim,

You can move to CNN now.

[A B]

Tim, I am ripping off your stripes for this:

"Sen. Lisa Murkowski, a Republican from Arkansas"

- Murkowski is from ALASKA.

More Factoids:

The Murkowskis (her father, etc.) are long time backers of Taiwan and a very well known enemy of China.

- The Murkowskis have received lots and lots of "benefits" from Taiwan interests.

- Isn't it amusing that she can say these things and be totally oblivious to the extreme and extensive discrimination against African-Americans in the United States, let alone Arabs and Muslims?

Do you want me to recount how often Blacks have been stopped by police in the United States for doing nothing wrong beside driving a nice car (like a not too pricey Lexus or Acura) for no other reason than because they are black?

Now, the saving grace is often these days, the police is very gracious once the Black driver who is stopped proved themselves to be harmless (for example, they have their military ID with them that happens to identify them as a high ranking officer), and they are sent on their way. Every now and then, you will run into a police that will use the occasion to do a through search of the car, and then, if nothing is found, maybe give the Black driver something like a ticket for driving 5mph over the limit, or for a crack in the tail light, or...

The crime is called "driving while black", or "driving while arab".

But little acts like this in the United States, and the willful ignorance and refusal of people like Sen. Lisa Murkowski to do something about it nearly 50 years after segregation has ended, can,

"further inflame ethnic conflict, you kind of build up through smaller incidents like this and hope others on the outside don't notice".

American pot likes to call the Chinese kettle black, so to speak.

[A B]

While we are onto factoids....

A cursory look at the American numbers suggest (subject to confirmation by the Chinese Government) that the rate that African-Americans are jailed in the United States of America are well above the rates of which Tibetan-Chinese are jailed in China.

Someone who have Chinese statistics please confirm this fact.

Thanks.

[bemis]

No let-up in TJ's verbal diarrhea over TAR? Betcha he's hoping to become a China Expert". Those guys are well-paid, I hear. And can write BOOKS! (Instead of blogs).

[A B]

bemis just want to see Tim TAR and feathered.

[paolang]

Tim, except for the exemption from the one-child policy, which is a significant privilege, Tibetans enjoys many other privileges, including tax, medical care, and education. Before Chinese peasants were exempted from paying agricultural taxes recently, the Tibetan peasants and shepherds had been exempted for years. Tibetan artisans and small merchants still have tax privilege comparing with their Han counterparts. While in rural Han regions, people almost have no health insurance, the rural Tibetans enjoyed modest medical care thanks to financial support from the central government. Tibetan children enjoy not only free elementary and middle school education, they even have free meals and lodging in schools. Tibetans need much lower score to enter college than Hans, even if they study in the same high school and applying for the same college. As for religious facilities,every 1600 to 1700 Tibetans have one temple, that is no comparison in the Han region. All these are made possible through huge amount of state subsidies, which amounts to 95% of Tibet regional government's annual budget, according to a 2002 statistics.

[paolang]

If you read Chinese, there is some official numbers on this page: http://www.xagsjcj.gov.cn/ReadNews.asp?NewsID=6860

[A B]

It is time Tibet receive equal treatment in China.

Let's end all the subsidies, preference for admission to schools, exemption to the one Child policy, etc.

It is about time this "autonomous" region pay their fair share of taxes.

[Bill]

I find the most serious problem is their religious freedom is restricted. Majority of Tibetan monasteries were destroyed since 1951 till 1970's. Chinese government stopped doing that now, but has restore only very small percentage of the destroyed monasteries. Lama's in these monasteries were chased out. Very few of them were allowed back to practise their religion. Traditionally, every family should send a few of their boys to be lamas (hence the close relationship between families and the monasteries). Now, they are forbidden to do so. The monasteries are also places of learning to carry on the Tibetan culture, language, tradition and religion. That continuation is severed now.

What is more alarming is that whenever Tibetan grievance were raised, either by Tibetans or others, the answer is: we gave them economic development. But economic development is desecration of the land in Tibetans' eye. They more Hans "enhance" Tibetan economy, the more violated they feel. And there does not seems to be hope to have any improvement in this area.

Religion is the big problem, not economy. And the Hans must realize that to make meaningful progress in calming down the Tibetans. But I don't see the Hans even listen to the Tibetans, much less understand what their grievances are, and make accommodation.

The excuses Hans used to justify continuing the occupation are all Han centred, never from the point of view of the Tibetans. This is particularly true of saying the desecrating of the land using economic development is for the good of the Tibetans. Money is a Han culture, not a Tibetan one.

[newmex]

Do all Chinese have a "nationality" listed on their id? This, along with state-controlled capitalism and restrictions on speech, is a recipe for fascism.As Tony Judt points out, we live in a fog of historical myopia and forgetting. Yes,China rises: so did Germany in the 1930s.Sadly, Bush has so destroyed US credibility that the standard for liberal democracy is hard to find. But you can't defend China by knocking the US.

[lala land]

Bill,
Stop claiming that China is restricting the Tibetan freedom of worship, haven't you seen enough 'monks' protesting in bright daylight and on international T.Vs.? How could it be possible if they were restricted to practice their religion? How could these 'monks' become monks if there were restriction?
As to the destruction of temples, all religious facilities in China received 'equal treatment': they were all destroyed or reused for other purposes during those years that you cited. While visiting Beijing almost three years ago, I witnessed a renovation taking place in a temple dedicated to one of the most revered figure in Chinese history: the temple of Confucius. And guess what? the temple has been left neglected for decades and the majority of the money needed for the renovation was donated from oversea Chinese! Since the central government seems to have little money for that project, would you like to call that discrimination to the Han?

[Y]

It is amazing how information travels in 21st centrury when it comes to Tibet:

Dalai ---> Dalai Envoy ---> Washingotn ---> Beijing Journalist ---> (probably) Tibet Monks (Dalai said we are second-class, protesting now)

Do American people still believe the WMD fairy tale?

[RY]

Has anyone been to Oakland or Compton?
If you don't contribute to society then you deserve to be treated as second class citizens. We should also strip of all religious institutions of tax exempt status as I have see monks wearing Rolex and driving around in Mercedes in HK and Taiwan, even Hamas and Hezibolah use donations to run schools, hospitals and other community based charitable organizations. Does the monks in Tibet do any of that?

Religion is opium for the masses. It preys on the poor and uneducated.

[oldfaithless]

Before communism, didn't the monks treat the mass of Tibetans as second-class citizens? This is not a rhetorical question - I'm curious. Anybody?

[Miaka]

I have to say that, although I keep reading about the preferential educational policies for minorities in China, I wonder about how these policies are actually carried out.

I recently read a study by Zhu Zhiyong about Inland Tibetan Schools (Neidi Xizang Ban). These schools are segregated schools for Tibetans only and they are boarding schools. The top junior level students in Tibet can attend and it is voluntary. However, once the students arrive at the schools they cannot return home, even for the holidays, until they complete their studies (a period of 4 to 7 years depending on how far they go).

The school that Zhu studied in his book is in Changzhou. There, the students were mainly segregated from Han students - their schools were separate - and they could only freely leave the school grounds once a week. When there were gatherings of Han and Tibetan students, many of the Tibetans recounted being treated poorly, such as being told they were dirty or stinky. They also recounted some negative reactions from the locals, who seemed to have minimal knowledge of Tibetan culture.

The school’s classes were in Mandarin with the exception of one Tibetan class which the students didn’t seem to attend as often as other classes. Thus, many of the students were concerned and felt bad about their decreasing Tibetan language skills. Also, the students were very conflicted about the Dalai Lama. They obviously admired him as a religious figure but they were confused by some of the negative things they heard about him in school.

The teachers in the schools largely seemed very caring, but none of them spoke Tibetan and it didn’t seem like they had very a strong understanding of some of the cultural differences that can cause problems or heartache for their students. That is not to say that the schools didn’t also provide the students with decent educations, but it is important to recognize that ethnic education in China is a complicated issue and that it can contribute to cultural dislocation and loss of identity.

I keep reading these facts online about the ‘accommodation of ethnic minorities’ in China, but I think that it’s important to recognize that what can look great on paper is actually a lot more complicated in practice. Zhu’s book is well worth a read and it highlights how the education system in the PRC can contribute to a loss of identity and culture.

I think such complicated problems also exist in Canada and other nations, particularly with regard to First Nations people. I am just bothered by claims I keep reading stating that ethnic minorities in China should be satisfied because they have been given so many advantages. I don’t think these advantages are necessarily simple or wholly positive in practice and they need to be critically examined.

I also thought this article, written by a Zhuang minority woman, quite interesting as it echoes some of the attitudes experienced by Tibetans in Changzhou: http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/us-and-them/

[A B]

Let's take the issue of being able to practice religion seriously.

The national policy of China is not to permit a formal religious authority that is a higher authority than the Chinese state to exist.

This applies to Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, and any other religion.

No exception can be made for the branch of Tibetan Buddhism that the Dai Lai Lama represents without making a policy change for the whole nation.

Then there is the issue of the Dai Lai Lama having played an active part in an armed insurrection financed by the United States.

Until the Dai Lai Lama and his followers return to China to face judgment and serve whatever sentence is imposed by a Chinese court for their crimes, they have the status of outlaws.

May I diverge and point out that the United States is still prosecuting cases of war crimes dating from World War II, and if the tables were reversed: i.e. A group of, say, native Indians in America rose up in armed revolt against the United States, and then spent the next 50 years in places like Cuba, Syria, etc. They will still be subject to prosecution to the full extent of the law IF they returned to the United States.

The Chinese case to put the Dai Lai Lama and his followers on trial is, in my view, open and shut.

Now, of course, there is the possibility that the Dai Lai Lama and his followers may seek a negotiated deal whereby they face a less harsh sentence than would otherwise be justified.....

But in order for such a deal to materialize, they would have to cease and desist from their separatist activities, show genuine remorse for their past crimes, and plead for leniency.

Tim,

I challenge you to find a lawful argument that the Dai Lai Lama can put forward for them being exempt from prosecution for their seditious acts in the past and present.

Everyone want China to move toward governance by the rule of law, but when it comes to cases like the Dai Lai Lama, it seems that everyone wants China to pretend that no law exist.

That

[Ted]

http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/hearings/2008/hrg080423p.html

Chinese people should go to this website and download the 4 pdf files and take the next week to read these thoroughly.
Once you have read these and can demonstrate that you actually understand the meaning of the words, sentences,
and statements made by these people at the US senate
then you will begin to be able to have an intelligent thoughtful discussion of Tibet.

Posting lies, innuendos, half-truths, distorted facts, and insults here serve no purpose.

Your problem is one of ignorance, emotional immaturity and lack of compassion for other human beings.

If you are not a coward and have some semblance of civilty
and intellectual curiosity then you will read the testimony in the pdf files on the senate webpage
and seek to understand what is being said.

Then a understanding and dialogue can begin and then a solution found.

To do otherwise only demonstrates uncivilized behavior of uneducated barbarians.
Chinese people should be capable of demonstrating that they can behave like educated people to discuss this issue.

[Ted]

The government promotes interest in Tibet among Han in the east as part of the policy of encouraging migration to Tibet as part of a coloniztion policy designed to increase Han people in the TAR until the Tibetan people become statistically a minority in their own country, a minority at the bottom of the social strata.

That is why the government in the past has encourage a romanticism of Tibetan and supports Tibetan pop singers.

The chinese are also pursuing this colonization policy in mongolia and xinjiang. It is a policy from the 19th century Qing Dynasty which is why it should be questioned if the PRC is capable of behaving like a modern civilized nation that is worthy of membership in the World Trade Organization.

The challenge is on China prove they capability to function a modern nation in dealings with provinces such as the TAR and behavior towards neighbors such as mongolia.

Based on the behavior of the Chinese people posting on forums such as this one it is clear this is a question that is still waiting to be answered and appears to be leaning towards a negative conclusion.

[A B]

OK, everyone, we got the message!

China need to modernize and adopt American style methods and do as the US does in Iraq.

Destroy the economy of Tibet, force the majority of the population to leave for Syria, Jordan, etc.

Instigate ethnic conflict between different flavors of Buddhists, Muslims, etc. so they kill each other off, and the US cleans up.

In the mean time, suck the resources like Iraqi oil from the country dry.

Oh... don't forget to spend billions and billions on "reconstruction contracts" which only loyal Republican lieutenants are eligible to receive, mostly for doing nothing.

Now that is a modern way of doing things!

[A B]

Tim, um, there is a problem with the article (As Olympics Near..) you just filed last nite:

See:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/34838.html

Your story stated:

"The volunteer managed to jump into a taxi and close the door, but the mob surrounded the taxi, trying to break in, tip the taxi over and smash the windows. The police were finally able to get the volunteer to a safe place," Parker explained in an e-mail to fellow volunteers that warned them to steer clear of protests."

The facts are as follows:

The unidentified American Volunteer in your story, whose name is James Galvin, had this to say about the alleged attack:

See:

http://shanghaiist.com/

http://shanghaiist.com/2008/04/24/volunteer_in_ch.php

Volunteer in China: "I was not in fact attacked by a mob"

"I am the volunteer in China who has been cited in a number of internet blogs and sources of the press as having been attacked by a mob in Hunan, China Sunday night. I was not in fact attacked by a mob at all but very slightly and unsuccessfully by one youth. The student was part of a demonstration and had confronted me upon my trying to leave the store. Evading that angry student i burst through a protest crowd. He shouted an inflammatory chant and the crowd--seeing what they thought was a French person walking through their protest of a French store--responded. Several students trying to maintain the non-violent nature of the protest walked me away from 2 violent students. The crowd however was already following and chanting, but not attacking me in spite of ample opportunities to do so thoroughly. I eventually got into a taxi and the crowd surrounded it, content to have a foreign audience for their message. (The Western born population of this town is almost unnoticeable.) Still chanting but never breaking through the windows or hurting me, the crowd continued to taunt and protest. In spite of plentiful false reports in the Western media, i was not harmed during the course of this protest--giving tenure to the demonstration as a non-violent event with one angry youth and one white guy where he didn't belong."

Tim,

I do not doubt that you reported the story in good faith.

However, in light of the facts , I do believe that your publication need to retract the "attack" claim and offer a reasonable explanation as to whether or not you attempted to contact the volunteer Mr. James Galvin to confirm the story before it ran.

It's all right, the best of Journalist make these mistakes.

[Liar Liar]

Ted, just a kind suggestion, only an ignorance man will call others "ignorance, emotional immaturity and lack of compassion for other human beings". And by the way, the so-called senate hearing are not holy bible. If you like, you can still find many "evidences" of iraq WMD in the 2003 senate hearing records.

[A B]

Liar,

Go read the commentary posted on House Resolution 1077 and see how badly off the facts Congress is.

You can get that here:

http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/china/2008/04/anger-at-cnn-an.html#comments

Scroll down about two thirds and you will see.

Enjoy.....

I don't waste time with people who cite the United States Congress for "factual evidence".

Doing that is liable to get you facts about Hillary Clinton evading sniper fire and anti-aircraft fire in Bosnia.

Or not get you facts like about the necessity for a very large tax increase in the United States to pay for 8 years of profligate spending that left large budget deficits..... much of it financed by China.

When is China going to wise up to the worthless nature of US debt?

[Pffefer]

Tim,

It is truly AMAZING that you would take what ONE person (Lodi Gyari, the special envoy of the Dalai Lama) says and present it as the truth. You have sunk to a new low. Has it ever occurred to you that he might not be painting an accurate picture? Has it ever occurred to you that being a envoy of the Dalai Lama, he knows very little about the ground reality in Tibet, and all the information he receives comes from those Tibetans-in-exile who are hostile to China? Has it ever occurred to you that this might be as much biased as the Chinese government telling everyone "The Tibetan people are happy"??

This is exactly why the Chinese have a problem with you guys, the western media guys. I am starting to believe that the Chinese government made a wise decision to bar you people from entering Tibet.

[Pffefer]

Tim,

One question: How do you know this guy can be trusted, how do you know he is presenting the whole picture, how do you know the other minorities (besides the Tibetans and the Uighurs) are not treated as second-class citizens?

[Jarrod]

Ted: "..you will read the testimony in the pdf files on the senate webpage
and seek to understand what is being said.
Then a understanding and dialogue can begin and then a solution found. To do otherwise only demonstrates uncivilized behavior of uneducated barbarians."

In other words, if you Chinese people don't do as Ted tells you to or agree with the US Senate's perspective, then you are still the same uncivilized barbarians that we knew you to be when we brought you here to the civilized world to do slave labor and then barred more of you from entering our country a hundred something years ago.

Ted, I'm curious if you helped Jack Cafferty come up with his thugs and goons comments. If not, CNN should really be looking to employ you in their propaganda war against China, it's a shame to see your extraordinary name calling talents and ability to spew hatred towards 1.3b people go to waste on an internet forum

Some of these testimonies are just plain lacking in facts- John D. Negroponte:
"On March 14, interaction between the protesters and the authorities in Lhasa descended into violence, including attacks on ethnic Han and Hui Muslim residents and their property" So interaction between the protesters and the authorities preceded the violence on March 14? According to J Miles' eyewitness report, there were no Chinese security presence to be found on the streets of Lhasa after the protests began, and that's when they went on to pillage, burn, and kill. Somebody is lying here, and I'm more prone to believe the guy that actually was there to see it happen.

"I’d like to underscore that our support for human rights in Tibet did not start just this year. Our efforts with the PRC have spanned the history of our relationship since we established diplomatic relations in 1979." Wrong again. the CIA has been funding and training the Tibetan militia since the 50s. It's so well known that there's really no point in cleverly covering it up by referring to "effort with the PRC". I guess secretive efforts to undermine the PRC wouldn't count here...

Just a couple of examples to show you Ted that your absolute truth should be taken with a grain of salt as with any other media or government report from the US, Europe, or China. Another name calling, self-righteous, hatred spewing, black/white visioned poster is the last thing we need on this forum.

[Pffefer]

Heck, what say does the US senate have on Tibet? Nothing. Those goons and thugs should be focusing on their own mess, period.

[Ted]

Now that you have read. Now try to understand the meaning of the words and the sentences, and then the greater meaning of the testimony. Next week when you have some understanding then you will be able to discuss with civility. Then one may have hope.

[Jarrod]

Ted, now that you have read my comments regarding the gross inaccuracies in your holy infallible Senate hearing testimonies, "try to understand the meaning of the words and the sentences" and give a proper response to me and A B.

"Discuss with civility?" After you called out Chinese people for their ignorance, lack of compassion, immaturity, and uneducated barbarian behavior, you are the one to talk about "civility"? Wow, for a sec I thought you were just naive but at least sincere in your views, but now I know you are simply a hypocrite.

[Ted]

Once you are capabl of civil discussion then the next step is to go to Tibet and learn the truth.

An independent team to include Red Cross, UN, World Bank, WTO, international media will go. You can go to, go to the prisons, speak to everyone and learn the truth there.

But first you must read and learn to behave with civility.

Only then is there a possibilty of a sense of compassion in other's to exist inside your self.

You are choosing the path of stringing lies, half truths, and innuendo's together driven by ignorance and emotional inmaturity. Read try to understand. Ask questions ,go to the source of the conflict and speak to those actually involved and learn the truth. Be prepared to listen.

[Ted]

Let's go to Tibet and learn. I have no fear. I do not have all the answers. But I am willing to read and learn and understand from compassion for others. I have not strung together lies, half truths, and innuendo driven by ignorance and emotional inmaturity. I am prepared to go to Tibet and learn the truth with my own eyes.

Why are you afraid to do so?

[Y]

Ted,
I do not think I ever paid any tuition fee to you. Nor does everbody else on this forum.

But thanks for the suggested reading assignments. If you have some thoughts, tell us here in layman's terms what it is.

[Y]

Ted,

The worst school teacher is the one who starts his lecture like this: "stupid head, listen, I am going to teach you the truth and compassion. Actually, I am going to first teach you how to listen, ... "

Maybe you were so unlucly to grow up in that kind of school. LOL.

[Y]

Ted,

"I am prepared to go to Tibet and learn the truth with my own eyes."

So, at this point, you actually do not have any idea what the truth is, do you? Then, where do your emotion come from?

[Jarrod]

Ted, I used to think you had a talent at spewing insults, but apparently you just use the same lines over and over again.."strung together lies, half truths, and innuendo driven by ignorance and emotional inmaturity"...

Go to Tibet Ted, it'll be good for you. I've been to Tibet 5 times for both business and personal reasons, I see all the injustice that's going on there, just like I see in other parts of China as well. All this exaggerated reports of racial hatred is only fanned by a few extremists as yourself. There's undoubtedly racial tension in play just like anywhere else in the world where different ethnicities live side by side, but to claim China's trying to wipe the Tibetans off of the face of the earth is just ridiculous. Either that or the government is doing a horrible job. Because last time I checked the Tibetan population is exponentially rising and there's a strict limit on the # of Han migrants and visitors (if they allowed everone free access into TAR, then there'd be cries of China placing tourism above the protection of the Tibetan environment). That's not a lie or a half truth as you can check the stats for yourself even on the stats bureau of western countries.

Stop the name calling Ted and resort to facts to have a mature and logical discussion.

[A B]

To the people conversing with "Ted":

Me respectfully submit that you people are playing piano to water buffalo.

Don't waste your time.

[Tim J]

Paolang, you note the economic privileges granted to Tibetans and other minorities in China. What you don't note, though, are facts-on-the-ground implementation. Let me provide an example: In what other major city in China besides Lhasa are nearly all taxi drivers from somewhere else? Every taxi driver I met was a migrant. Tibetans told me that in theory they are allowed to get the license for driving a taxi but in practice the payment required (something quite high like 40,000 RMB) was such that only migrants with extended kinship connections could pull together the money. So while the central gov't tries to open some doors, many other doors are closed.

And while we're on the topic, I think it's important to note that the vast majority of the Tibetan protests that began March 10 were peaceful. If one wants to caricaturize Tibetans as general ingrates for all the great things Beijing does for them, it doesn't serve much purpose ini understanding the situation.

And here's a final observation: None of us has a good handle on what Tibetans actually want. That's because there are no independent surveys there, that I know of, to really analyze what the attitudes are.

[lisi]

Tim J,

Here is one:

http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft2199n7f4/

[Y]

I do not know what the purpose of the $40,000 is. To buy the car, or to get a license? What is the market price in other cities?

I hope that you are not suggesting that it is the chinese government who purposely sets the bar so high that no tibetant can afford to be a taxi driver?

[bandw]

Don't know the passport part. As to Tibetans denied checking into the hotels, that definitely not true. There are discriminations in China,sure, but usually is class-based,not ethnics-based,such as ones against migrant workers.

[A B]

"important to note that the vast majority of the Tibetan protests that began March 10 were peaceful."

That begs the question: the protests appeared to be well organized and simultaneously held at different locations.

I want to know a lot more about who, what, where, when, how, and why.

In particular, what role did individuals and organizations outside of China play in these protests.

I seem to recall that simultaneous acts is a trademark of another organization called al-Qaeda.

The Chinese Government have not made a good case (backed with solid facts) as to who organized these events, how it happened, etc.

Maybe they are the ones that need to start doing their homework.

[A B]

Oh, Tim....

Just a reminder about your article,

"As Olympics near, jittery China clamps down"

got a few problems with facts.

See my above comment re: statement in Shanghailist by Mr James Galvin, the alleged victim of a mob attack:

Volunteer in China: "I was not in fact attacked by a mob"

Please check your facts and make corrections to your published article.

[bandw]

If you want to know where the grievances come from, I suggest you read the article by Pankaj Mishra. He is more insightful than most western journalists.
Tibet is a society in transition, very much like China inland in 1988-1989. Mr.Mishra is from India, a country that is going through the similar process. He know how it feels to be tempted and "threatened" by modernization.It was a clash between the secular ,commercial culture and the traditional theocratic social order.
Here is the link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/22/tibet.china1

[RY]

Tim J:

Within Han chinese between provincess there are a lot of bias and distrust such how general population's view of Cantonese, Shanghainese, and Taiwanese. Just like in US New Yorkers still think southerners family tree never branch.

Han Chinese in general have this elitist attitude as it is the cultural, political and commerce center of China for centures. It is also why the Mongols and the manchus were able to conquer it from time to time.

[lisi]

Here is a "documentary" made by BBC titled "A Year in Tibet". There are 5 episodes and each episode has 6 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhW4dNISoXs

If you ignore the words that were put in the mouths of the Tibetans, the misinterpretations of what's being shown on the screen by the narrator and the intentionally mistranslated subtitles, you can actually have a taste of what life is like in today's Tibet.

The most hilarious part is when the narrator was talking about how the Tibetans and the Han hate each other, the story on the screen was actually a Tibetan business man trying to help his Han buddy to win a lawsuit. BBC must think their viewers are stupid!

Enjoy!

[lisi]

The BBC "ducumentary" made a lot of assertions, but failed to provide any facts.

[paolang]

Tim, I wonder if we are still talking about the issue of second-class citizen. The taxi issue cannot be used to indicate any discriminative policy. The 40,000 Yuan is a security deposit paid to the taxi company, which is a common practice of taxi companies throughout China. It is rather doubtful to say that Tibetans are banned from the business because they cannot afford to pay the deposit. Why the Hans have more connections while the Tibetans have more relatives and the majority of local cadres are tibetan? After all, being a taxi driver is not an attractive way of making a living.

The distorted implementation of state policy at local level is a persistent problem for all over China. I do hear that the local officials in Tibet are even more corrupted than officials at other places, but I do not have hard evidence for that. But the local officials are mainly ethnic tibetan, so no discrimination charges should be raised here.

As for Han emigration to the Tibetan area, the number is still relatively small, and the emigrants are all economically driven. In this age of globalization when people are looking for job all over the world, why could not Hans go to Tibet, a place of their own country, to find a job? I would like to see more outsiders come to work in Tibet, and more tibetans go out to find jobs in other Chinese locales. If this makes it more difficult for foreign manipulation, I won't feel sorry. I am afraid those who oppose Han immigration are close to becoming racists.

I am glad to see that you are still interested in what really happened in Tibet last month, while most west media are satisfied with the phrase of ruthless crackdown. The basic numbers are: 18 innocent civilians, one policeman and 3 rioters died in Lhasa. If you still believe the number (140-157) provided by Dalai's exile government, you need search if they have provided any evidence to support the number. There is a reason why the Dalai Lama is called Daliar Lama or Dalai Liar by some angry Chinese.

The responsibility of a journalist is to improve mutual understanding between different groups, and that cannot be achieved through enhancing prejudices to entertain one's boss and audience.

[Mainlander]

What is the big deal about Tietans being treated like 2nd class citizens in China? Why is the West so particularly obsessed/fond of the Tibetans & single them out for your shower of paternistic concern? Do you smell rat in this process?

Chinese Malaysians/Indonesians are not only 2nd class citizens but they are subjected to political persecutions in their country of birth. Palestinians are shot like dogs in Gaza, Muslims are treated like terrorists in all Western nations & the list goes on.... Why your selective concern only for those in countries not of your liking?

[A B]

Oh don't take it so badly... Mainlander...

Americans do a wonderful job with quotas to ensure a few blacks make it to what appears to be the top, so they can calmly point the 'successful blacks' out to the other 99.9% of blacks that are given no chances and say it is their fault.

Look at what the Clintons are prepared to do to keep a black from running for President. Here is a quote from US Representative James Clyburn, who is black, from today's NY Times:

"Mr. Clyburn added that there appeared to be an almost “unanimous” view among African-Americans that Mr. and Mrs. Clinton were “committed to doing everything they possibly can to damage Obama to a point that he could never win.”"

Or, another way to think of America.... there is no apartheid. But just show up at a Church on Sunday, and you will see more segregation than South Africa was ever able to achieve.

Want to see Americans wince? Just have a young black male hit on a white woman!

Want to see them really cringe in private? Have the Black-White couple show up with mixed race children.

Or how about this one: Go to a foreign community event organized by Americans anywhere in China and estimate what percentage of the people there are African-American. If the % exceeded 1%, you probably went to the wrong country's event.

Off hand, I cannot think of a single accredited foreign correspondent in mainland China that is African-American. (Correct me if I am wrong, Tim).

But, these are just little slights that is not worthwhile of things like Congressional Resolutions, demonstrations against the US abroad, etc.

If Chinese do not see this kind of American injustice as worth complaining about and making American racial discrimination an international issue, they have no one to blame but themselves .

[Jarrod]

On Paolang's point about lack of evidence regarding the "hundreds" killed by China in its crackdown, here's the evidence that the Dalai Lama had to provide for it during an interview with Anne Curry-

ANN CURRY:
China says about 20 people were killed during the arrests in Tibet. You just said, hundreds, you believe, were killed? This is information you're getting?

DALAI LAMA:
Uh-huh (AFFIRM). Oh, I-- I mean, you see, the-- I-- I think, maybe when Chinese say, I can only, autonomous region of Tibet, maybe. I don't know. I don't know. But it seems, you see, they-- outside the the autonomous region of Tibet, this area very remote. And many don't, deh, what's it called, what's say, normantic (PH), very remote area. So, I really very much worry, as-- what's-- what is happening in this area?

[Mi]

##########
if you watch Tibetan Music videos from the last few years, you can see evidence of the Tibetan Genocide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvxWyvkv7xc

The Chinese have practically wiped out every last trace of Tibetan language and culture.
#########

[Chinese to the world]

frankly after reading all these blogs and comments, I'll give up reading them. comments from people like AN et al are typically fact based n well reasoned. surprisingly almost anybody considered well-educated in China understands many facts about the western world, including all the great things that we should really learn. On the other hand, most westerners have no clue about China, including the journalists who're aid to inform. instead you see/hear all these riduculously childish comments/misinformaiton. basic research has never been done before they jump to cnclusion. Isn't Tim based in China. and if you truly care about Tibet, maybe you shouldn't have up until now been unaware of the many benefits Tobetans enjoy in China, even more so than what blacks got in the US (of course I partically agree that the government need to review its policy and not complately subsitute economic benefits for all the other things Tibetans want)

I often laungh when I read well-know news agencies reporting from China have titles like "president zeming", "Mr. Jiabao". They haven't even figured out that the Chinese's surname is put in front of first name. only recently they have realized this. while in China even when I was a kid 30 years ago, I know in English surnames are put in the back...

you can say this is undersandable as the world has been western centric for 200 years already. prejudice and mis-informaiton will linger for a long time

sadly not many people n the media are helping. wel then they have to make a living too...

[nanheyangrouchuan]

Chinese cannot "just change jobs" unless they have a native born hukou for the location they are working in. If their hukou is sponsored, things can be tough. This same system also restricts their ability to move wherever they want (and be considered "legal residents" with access to social/legal/educational resources.

And here is more of "bad China"!

It's time for "Shark awareness week"!

http://tinyurl.com/4zt6j4

[Chinese to the world]

frankly for guys like Ted, and I have to say there are many of them in the west, the only way for them to realize how prejudiced they are, is to right all historical wrongs, and to fundamentaly liberate the world from this abnormalty of hsitory - western domination. their superiority complex (economical and supposedly moral high ground) has prejudiced them to the extent that nothing can cure them. only a major disaster in the west will do the trick. so many innocent lives lost in Iraq in the name of war against terror. has anybody cared? yes some in Europe protestd, but once they realized they were up against the sole superpower of the world, their leaders all shut up and start to kiss American ass again

[A B]

Chinese,

"so many innocent lives lost in Iraq in the name of war against terror"

The operative word is "in the name of" because the facts show that the Iraq war had nothing to do with the war against Islamic Militants who attacked the US on 9/11.

It is like saying, "in the name of the emperor.... you are commanded to do...."

Furthermore, Iraq was found NOT to possess Weapons of Mass Destruction as alleged by no less than the United States at the United Nations. Nor did Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capability pose an imminent threat to anyone beside themselves.

The UN never gave a mandate to invade Iraq (Res. 1441 did not authorize an invasion and the attempt to pass a subsequent resolution failed.)

So basically, Iraq was invaded for no legitimate reason in the eyes of the international community.

An unprovoked attack on another state is what that amounts to.

[whatever]

Dalai Lama is a thug, a CIA-taught, CIA-trained, US-funded thug, period.

The latest murderous riot by the Tibetan thugs has been designed right from the start by the West (US, Britain, Germany etc) to create chaos and ethnic conflict in China.

It's an old trick. Britain has been using it well before colonial times to weaken an enemy before sending in its own navy and troops to occupy a piece of the territory. Further expansion and exploitation would follow.

There's only one possible answer for China - keep rapidly building up its military to achieve both technological and quantitative parity with scheming group (US, Canada, Britain, France, Australia, Germany). Once China has acquired enough nuclear and conventional arsenal, and solidified economic/political/military relations with African, Asian and Middle-eastern nations, then the next time the US/UK tries a similar assault on China, just declare war on them.

If the U.S. couldn't beat China in the Korean War in the 1950s and the Vietnam War in the 1960s, chances are the US/UK/France/Germany etc would lose precipitously in an equally matched military confrontation.

The most important thing to remember - Do Not Have Any Illusions!

the U.S./U.K./Germany/France etc aren't interested in some BS "democracy" or "freedom". Heck, America is itself not a democracy - it was founded as a constitutional republic; but even that has been demolished beyond all recognition by the thugs in the White House, Congress and the Pentagon.

[Douglas Zhang]

The news report by Tim
Johnson on China alleged that the crowd of Chinese
customers gathered in front of the French retailer store Carrefour was sanctioned by Chinese government. This is again a woefully wrong assessment of the public opinion in China toward the ugly episode of the hostile activities against China across world capitals in recent weeks. Now the Chinese people in this modern and technology-enhanced world have free, easy, and ready access to truth and reality which western media has been working so ferociously to deprive Chinese people of and which western media has been so skillful in and capable of distorting. The anti-western
sentiments that have been growing rapidly among Chinese people are genuine and serious, not the result
of government instigation as western media would like
their audiences to believe. Actually, one of the greatest triumphant victories for the Chinese government in the aftermath of western media intentional distortion of what was going on in Tibet and distortion of China's human
rights records is the spontaneous and frenzied
demonstration of total distrust and aversion by the
Chinese people toward western media and whoever behind
it. The good image of "fair and balanced" western
media has been irreparably damaged and irretrievably
lost as far as Chinese people are concerned, resulting
in western countries losing yet another leverage to
influence the hearts and minds of the Chinese people. What goes around comes around! What has resulted directly from this recent round of western media hostility toward China is the total failure of and
dramatic end to the mission of western countries to start "a peaceful evolution" through ideological competition to be carried out chiefly, if not
entirely, by its media outlets. Now among all the
uncertainties surrounding China one thing is 100%
certain, that is, the option of turning China into the
orbit of western countries through "peaceful evolution" can be forever scratched out from the list of their options.

Douglas Zhang

[chanps]

"I fermently defend your right to express your opinion although I do not agree with them". This has been constantly used to justify the bias and lopsided views and makes one seemingly looks good holding the moral high ground. On false and fabricated evidence and strong objections from IAEA and without UN support, US went to war alone with the "coalition of the willing". Hundreds of thousand died and still dying.

[A B]

Lost in this debate is the willingness of people, from journalist to politicians to other gullible parties to take at face value what Tibet activist say at face value.

Or take what politicians say at face value.

A good way to look at this is to find an unrelated issue, and see how credible prominent politicians are.

Here is an article on the Clinton-Obama competition from a reasonably credible source (The Washington Post).

See:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/25/AR2008042503707_2.html?nav=hcmodule&sub=AR&sid=ST2008042504037

The article concludes with an assessment of what a former Hillary Clinton fund raiser and campaign contributor, prominent billionaire William Louis-Dreyfus says about Hillary's rhetoric about Obama:

"At the end of the day, all she had to do was open her mouth for me not to believe her," Louis-Dreyfus said.

If this is the level of skepticism applied to Hillary Clinton's comments against someone from her own party, and this level of skepticism is accepted by the Washington Post as having some merit, does it not follow that on the issue of Tibet, a certain degree of skepticism as to the claims of Tibetan activists --- particularly those with a past as armed insurrectionists financed by the United States Government --- be treated with a degree of skepticism?

The amusing thing about the statements from Lodi Gyari and Lisa Murkowski above is that they are quoted verbatim, with no effort made to check the facts or to frame it in context.

It is also interesting to note that the original post called Lisa Murkowski the Senator from Arkansas, and when this error was pointed out by commentators, it was quietly corrected WITHOUT a note in the article acknowledging that the article has been changed, and hence, the comments below reflect an earlier version.

The owner of the blog has the power to retroactively change their posts, but by doing so after it appeared without drawing the reader's attention to it with a statement to the effect of, "An earlier version of this incorrectly stated that...." would certainly bring the owner of this blog into disrepute.

Is there any difference between this behavior and falsifying information, as the Chinese government is often accused of doing by Western journalists?

Do McClatchy Newspapers retroactively change other stories online without alerting the readers?

Is this standard operating procedure?

[Mick]

A couple of Tibetan guys I met working in Beijing much preferred it there to their hometown because they didn't get so much discrimination. 'Here we are treated like all other "waidi ren" but at home we are treated like "Tibetans", it's like a brick wall," they said.

[A B]

Mick,

What they need to do is to repackage themselves as Indonesian Chinese, or expat Indians, etc.

On the other hand, the Central Government can just eliminate the TAR, end the "special status" given to Tibetans and other ethnic minorities, which include ending both the privileges and discrimination, so all Chinese Nationals, regardless of ethnic nationality, province of origin, religion, language, and creed, in China can be treated fairly and equally.

The Tibetan Autonomous Region is more and more looking like a Bantustan.

[Bill]

These are all such interesting comments. I find the charges of hypocrisy toward the author to be unhelpful, though. After all, the situations in the US and China are different, the main one being the lack of democracy and representation in China. Don't get me wrong. America has some problems with its democracy that we really must address. Like the huge number of people each Congressperson represents. Congress really ought to be housed in a covered football stadium with about a hundred times the membership (say, 43,500 Congressmen).

But Federalism in our nation has ensured that some states give blacks a lot more power in those states than in other states where they are in fewer numbers. And I think this is only right. Yes, there is racism and discrimination in the US. There probably always will be. But it gets diffused over time in our democracy. Chinese propaganda coming from leadership in Beijing who should know better is something that the US doesn't have to deal with. "Propaganda" in the US is so small scale that it just melds in with all the other opinions we find swirling around us. And it certainly doesn't encourage racism as they are finding in China.

China needs more Federalism, especially in a democratic context. Possessiveness really thwarts the resolution of local needs. Tibet clearly has local needs. But it also needs China to help defend it against its neighbors. Which is why I believe the Dalai Lama honestly prefers autonomy to independence.

[chanps]

As I read the blogs including those views from Tim, as much as he knows about China, he keeps comparing China vs Western values, to the extent of imposing the Western liberties on Chinese confucianism culture. He should have known being in China long enough that whilst Chinese does value individual rights, however the rights of family, society and country are equally important..which explains the nationalism displayed which often erroneously protrayed by the media as staged. If one just look into the education of Chinese people, one often find that chinese parent will go through all means to finance their children through schools with minimum state assistance. Various Chinese associations also contribute and build schools for the Chinese communities not only in China but also other countries. In contrast with Western values, most children have to finance their own way through high schools and universities. Judging China and Chinese people through Western values is inappropriate and similiarly they would not like to be judged through Confucianism values. It is not about just Tibet or Taiwan but the 1.3 billion Chinese in China. No one should doubt that Western democracy if imposed 20 years ago would created untold misery and China will not be what it is today.

[A B]

Americans do not advertise in their propaganda the great democratic places to live in like Rwanda, Haiti, etc.

Given a choice, a majority of Chinese would refuse a change to a system like India, which is a democracy, but nearly everyone is impoverished.

American propaganda also do not advertise how Hitler came to power legally and democratically, or democratic systems that elect Hamas, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Islamic Jihad, or Hugo Chavez.

When a democratic system throws out a leader or group of leaders that is diametrically opposed to the US, Americans take a position that:

"It doesn't matter if it is Democratic or not, as long as it is pro-American."

Hence the backing for the Saudis, Egyptians, Saddam Hussein before he "turned" on the US, etc.

[buffy]

Chinese government always said that it poured millions of money into Tibet, and developed TAR. In fact few Tibetans get the benefits. I would like to extract some of Samdhong Rinpoche reply to the reporters "The authorities of People's Republic of China are taking all the resources of Tibet away. Nothing is being given back. More than 100 gold mines are active and exploited by Chinese authorities. Copper, aluminium and uranium is taken out of Tibet. The PRC was able to pay back a huge loan taken from the USSR due to finds of high quality uranium deposits.

China is surviving on Tibet's water, timber and what not! Nothing is coming back. Although, they have given huge statistics of cost of railways and all that, but this infrastructure is for themselves and not for Tibetans, who are absolutely marginalised.

The beggars on the streets of Lhasa are all Tibetans not Han. It reflects the fact that Tibetans have not benefited by progress."

[buffy]

I think the reason why the Dalai Lama just asks for greater autonomy for TAR instead of asking for independence for Tibet is because he knows that it's impossible. If Tibet, when it was an independent country with a small army of about 5000 people, could not defend itself when China invaded it in 1950, how can its exile government with no army can ask for independence now? Therefore the Dalai Lama just asks for greater autonomy.

China blamed Western media for "bias" coverage. I think Western's reaction of China's crackdown on Tibet's protest is the natural reaction of a free, good person, who cannot stand still to see a small kid beaten up by a big bully.

I am glad that there are honest reporters like Tim Johnson who are brave to report what they see, inspite of all the death threats from extreme people whose patriotism are manipulated and taken advantage of by the Chinese government.

Tim J, please keep up your good work. I have read your replies to the blogs, and agree with you.

[Momo]

I've worked in Tibet to provide Tibetans with identity cards. Most of them won't get an ID even if you paid them because they thought that taking photographs is bad for them. As a Tibetan.. written on your ID... you even get a lower mark boundary for entering University in China. I don't believe that they are miss treated by the government. About the hotels and such, this is purely an issue of level of Education. Racism occurs everywhere. I don't think I experienced more racism anywhere in the world than when I was in some town in North England and Scotland.

[Mongol Warrior]

Oh, seems like you know nothing about China and still eating, wearing 'Made in China'. Tim, please do a bit homework before writting some 'opinions'.

Second class citizens? give me a break!... on one hand, you guys always wrote 'Communism China'. Do you really know what is communism? we are all equal as 'comrade'. OK!.....working class;)......a nice comment by a Indian friend I saw on BBC: he said he has been to many countries. The only country he didn't feel discrimination is China.

I think I need to introduce you Chinese Embassador Fu Ying who is from ethnic Mongol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu_Ying

Either you are ignorance or paid by CIA/NED.

I am second-class in USA. Ok

Why don't you talk about woman's right in China? ...comparing it with western societies.

Good Luck for your report! Study hard please.

[John]

Tibet as second-class citizens?

Tibetans are exempt from the One-Child policy because of their minority status and they get affirmative action benefits in top colleges and gov't jobs.

Forgot to mention that huh?

It's unbelievable how amazingly biased you people can get when it comes to reporting on China.