China's quarrel with Sharon Stone

And now for a celebrity moment: Hollywood star Sharon Stone has single-handedly united Chinese in outrage, suggesting the Sichuan earthquake was “karma” payback for China’s handling of Tibet.

Stone was caught on a runway  the red carpet at the Cannes Film Festival with a question about the disaster. Here’s what she said, according to the YouTube clip above:

“Well, you know, it was very interesting because at first I’m not happy about the way the Chinese are treating the Tibetans because I don’t think anyone should be unkind to anyone else. And so I have been very concerned about how to think and what to do about that because I don’t like that.

“And I’ve been just, you know, concerned about, oh, how we should deal with the Olympics because they’re not being nice to the Dalai Lama, who’s a good friend of mine. And then this earthquake and all this stuff happened, and I thought, ‘Is that karma when you’re not nice that the bad things happen to you?’

“And then I got a letter from the Tibetan Foundation that they wanted to go and be helpful, and that made me cry. And they asked me if I would write a quote about that. And I said I would, that it was a big lesson to me, that sometimes you have to learn to put your head down and be of service even if people aren’t nice to you, and that’s a big lesson for me.”

Now, China’s cinemas have banned films featuring Sharon Stone, and the internet here is filling with video clips and comments berating Stone. She has become the latest target of wrath, following Chinese anger last month at Jack Cafferty, the CNN commentator whose remarks about “goons and thugs” in China led the network to issue a formal apology.

Below is a typical English language rebuttal to Stone.

Comments

[joe here]

The Chinese have deep pockets to pay you, eh Jeff?

[MT]

Junhui,

If the Tibetans inside Tibet were happy, I would imagine the CCP would showcase the fact. What were the protests and riots about then? Also the CCP tried to organize a tour of the monasteries for propaganda and we all know how that turned out. Of course we will not know the exact percentage of people who are unhappy unless we hold an election or at least an opinion poll, which the CCP will not permit. Ask yourself, why would the CCP be so paranoid? It knows in a open election, it would lose in Tibet.

I am glad we had this discussion. I hope to see a free China and a free Tibet one day.

You wrote:
"What's the difference between a legal military occupation and an illegal military occupation?"

I am not a scholar in international law. But here is what I think: All legitimacy ultimately comes from the people. So in that sense, the only treaties which should be legitimate (of course this is just my opinion) are those signed by elected leaders. I also believe that there should be some basic individual rights which should be respected by the majority even in a democracy. Much of international law seem to be made up by bureaucrats with no authority from the people. But in today's world I think of those as reasonable conventions and rules which help avoid war.

By the above logic, all military occupations should be illegitimate, except when done to to fight really horrible human rights violations like genocide, ethnic cleansing etc.

In the case of Iraq war, both sides didn't ask the Iraqi people what they thought before the war started. So the occupation is as illegitimate as the govt that preceded it. In the US govt's defense they seem to want to establish an elected govt and get out in a reasonable time frame. If Iraq were a democracy, then of course the invasion would have been illegitimate.

[Junhui]

did I say Qin, i meant Qing

[Junhui]

Your comparison with Wen Jiabao and the Dalai Lama are close yet far. He did not preside over the construction of those buildings. So I don't quite see your comparison And yes its a shame that those buildings fell. I am actually angered myself at how China was; I am glad that it has changed so much. Safety is going up and thats a plus for everyone.

I'm glad we agree on something. I've been always thinking about some type of Federation in China. But I don't think it should be a federation based on ethnicity and/or religion. That will cause tension. Not that there isn't tension right now.

Sun Yat-sen (Sun Zhongshan) was not only a han figure head but also the figure head that spawn the KMT and CCP. He's responsible for leading the force overthrowing the Qin Monarchy. That's why he's revered. Sun Yat-sen isn't even a Beifangren (northerner). To get really really really technical, hes Yue (Han) aka Cantonese.

You say the Tibetans are unhappy. But are you even sure? I'm not even sure. I'm not quite sure what Tibetans inside China feel. The TGIE say Tibetans are angry but they represent Tibetans in exile. The CCP represent the government. They both have their obvious agendas. Can't trust neither.

Not that this is a reference, but I found this video interesting:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zj6-_XcCLzw

The girl said to that old Tibetan man (his accent is definitely not Chinese) that he took her country? I like her perfect English.

Anyway MT. I really enjoyed our discussions and I'm glad we have similar views in where we want to see this. I'm very anti-separatism anywhere. Separatism leads to no good. Let there be a Chinese Federation one day.

There has been one question on my mind for a very long time...What's the difference between a legal military occupation and an illegal military occupation?

[MT]

Junhui,

You wrote:
"Who is currently ruling TAR? From my understanding a majority of the leaders are Tibetans."

The real ruler is the secretary of the CCP in Tibet (Zhang Qingli)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Qingli
From wikipedia: "Known for his tough policies in ethnic regions, Zhang has dismissed ethnic officials whom he considers unreliable"

In any case, using an analogy, during the Japanese occupation of China, quite a few administrators were Chinese. That did't mean that China was not under occupation.

If I call Wen a mass murderer, you wouldn't like it, because it is false. In the same way there are people who revere the Dalai Lama, and you are hurting their feelings when you make baseless allegations that Dalai Lama was a mass murderer. (Using your logic about the Dalai Lama, I could argue that Wen is responsible for the death of all those children when the school building collapsed, because Wen/CCP was in charge of constructing those schools. So Wen is a mass murderer indirectly. But that argument is clearly stupid, and I think Wen is probably a pretty good guy.)

I believe we have some agreement about having democracy all over China. I do not advocate for an independent Tibet, just a free one. It would be nice to have democracy for all Chinese. If China were a federal democracy, where Tibetans can practice their religion, elect their leaders etc., I wouldn't care whether Tibet is part of China or not. I don't believe in picking over history to decide whether Tibet belongs to China or not. It is a never ending argument, and to be realistic, China is never going to give up control over Tibet.

You wrote:
"The Chinese government is not doing anything to the Tibetan people that its not doing to its own people."

I disagree that what is happening in Tibet is similar to what is happening in the Ha n parts of China. The Dalai Lama's picture is forbidden in Tibet, and you could go to jail for having that. Would the CCP dare ban the a similarly revered Han Chinese figure? (Sun Yat Sen? I am not an expert on Chinese history)

Also most Han Chinese (or at least a sizable fraction) seem to be happy about the slow pace of democratic reform and trusts the CCP to manage the economy (possibly because they are doing well economically). But all indications are that most Tibetans are unhappy about CCP rule.

[Junhui]

The reference to the indirect "mass murder" was supplied by the fact that the Dalai Lama was the head of state under Tibetan Feudalism. Please go back to the Li Ao video or go search for my info.

You may disagree with Parenti's views but that does not make that mess creditable. There were both opinions and facts. You can ignore his opinions but not the facts.

The Dalai Lama doesn't make very good friends either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoko_Asahara

Anyway off that subject. Yes I suppose there could be a referendum for Tibetans. Are you asking for the region or just the peoples? Because both might reveal some fairly different results.

In addition, will the results be bias? This is straight from a PRO-Tibetan website:

"Many Tibetans who are not part of the government reject autonomy outright, due to the dismal example of the current Tibet Autonomous Region, without understanding that autonomous arrangement vary tremendously depending on the allocation of governmental powers and their legal framework. On the other hand, some Tibetans support an autonomous arrangement simply because His Holiness has proposed it" - tibetjustice.org

Speaking of bias, I never said TGIE restricts the press. I'm just saying all the sources have very OBVIOUS alliances.

I don't listen to Xinhua commentaries. They might mess with my head. I try to stay away from those news releases. They tend to say the same things, which is also why I stay away from TGIE releases.

Just a correction, Taiwan was never a feudal society. If you even consider it a country, it started off day one as a "democracy". But things were really harsh (in terms of freedom) for the first 50 years. They jailed journalist too.

I would really suggest going to China and talking it out. You won't get arrested. It is not as bad as you think. When I was there, I talked to everyone. Most are not afraid.

In addition, if you can really find me an article that says Wen Jiabao is a mass murder I would be more than pleased to read it. That guy is my idol.

Lastly, I want to ask you "Why?" Why does Tibet need to be separate from China? Democracy? Why not strive to change all of China and not just Tibet? Who is currently ruling TAR? From my understanding a majority of the leaders are Tibetans. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Autonomous_Region).
Cultural genocide? Did you see the pictures of Lhasa when the riots were happening? Tibetan prayer flags were everywhere.

The Chinese government is not doing anything to the Tibetan people that its not doing to its own people. Just saying, that if there is to be change, there should be change for everyone.

[MT]

Junhui,

If you honestly think that Chinese rule has been better than Dalai Lama's rule, why don't we ask the Tibetans. Let us have referendum in Tibet. Why is the CCP so afraid of democracy in Tibet. Is it possible that given a choice Tibetans would choose the TGIE over the CCP?

[MT]

Junhui,

Firstly, when you make an argument, it is your responsibility to provide references, not mine to search for it.

Your first video features Michael Parenti. These are from his wikipedia page:
"Parenti's beliefs led him to become head of the United States chapter of the International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milošević,[32] in which capacity he added to the criticisms of bias in the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia"

With advocates like these for the Chinese cause in Tibet, is it any wonder that world opinion is with the Dalai Lama.

I can also possibly come up with nut cases who proclaim on the internet that Wen and Hu are mass murderers and the world needs to invade China.

Btw, where is your evidence that the Dalai Lama is a murderer?

You said:
"Yes, everyone in the world has access to the TGIE government and citizens who are loyal supporters of the Dalai Lama. It's a sad situation really. If China opens up they lose, if they don't they lose."

I am baffled, in what way do you think the TGIE restricts press freedom? Any journalist can talk to any Tibetan exile as long as they want to talk to you. Of course the govt in not going to force anybody to talk. You can go to India and do this yourself, and you don't have to get permission from TGIE.

If China hadn't invaded Tibet who knows it might be a more progressive and free place now. Look at Taiwan, Korea, India. All were feudal societies in the early parts of the 20 century, now democracies.

The Tibetans have gotten some economic benefits by being part of China. By the same token China has also benefited by controlling Tibet, by having access to the large natural resources like minerals, water etc.

We can debate all day on whether Chinese rule was good for Tibet. The only people who can make that judgment is Tibetans. Let us ask all Tibetans by having a referendum.

I do not hate the Chinese people. All I am doing here is keeping the record straight. If anything there are many people on the other side making baseless allegations about the Dalai Lama. I can only surmise that they are blinded to the truth by hate.
Btw, have to listened to Xinhua commentary on the Dalai Lama. Do you think that an expression of love towards the Dalai Lama?

Lastly I would love to visit Tibet (and other parts of China) one day. I have heard that it is beautiful. Unfortunately I am not brave enough to risk getting arrested by the CCP for traveling to Tibet and Tibetan monasteries and talking to people. I really appreciate people like Tim who take the trouble to report from dangerous places so that people like me who are not so brave can be well informed. I really hope some day in the future I would be able to travel to free and democratic China.

[Junhui]

PS:
"I don't disagree with you that the Tibetan govt in the middle of the 20th century wasn't perfect. But compared to CCP murdering millions of people anything they did is quite minor."

I don't disagree with you that the CCP killed a lot of people during the middle of the 20th century. But you have to realize the sheer scale of things. How much damage could the Tibetan government possible do with such a small population?

All I'm suggesting to you is, don't deny facts and keep an open mind. If you find reasons to hate, thats all you will do is hate.

The CCP under Mao was a disgusting era, I personally despise the man and his cultural revolution. But hey, the Chinese got through it and are now stronger and still changing.

If your heart is full of hate you will never be able to accept the truth. It's an undeniable fact that the average Tibetan NEVER tasted freedom and what they have now is better than what they had before. It CAN be better, but why not let it change at a steady pace? Why not let ALL people in the region gain freedom they deserve.

Yes the CCP was a evil entity, be look were it came from, thousands of years of monarchy. Look where it is now. It will change have faith.

[Junhui]

I apologize with offending you with the truth. I tell you to search and you don't search. Here is one not made by the Chinese government:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Oq7YRg55h8A

Here is one made by a Taiwanese historian:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_twZxK3NSQA

The youtube videos are a collection of historical facts and pictures placed into one short clip for those who don't excel in reading. Like wikipedia, they can be edited. But if you were smart you could probably piece the two together. They are not amature clips.

I am not arguing for or against the situation about the journals. I admitted I knew nothing about it and am not at a position to argue anything. Because that would be like stabbing in the dark. China does imprison journalist and for a variety of reasons, more reason than are probably reported.

Yes, everyone in the world has access to the TGIE government and citizens who are loyal supporters of the Dalai Lama. It's a sad situation really. If China opens up they lose, if they don't they lose.

I don't know what its like to be n Dharmasala, I don't know what their situation is, but seeing as who is doing all the talking, we know who the true leader is. We can poke at each others charters all day but thats still not gonna solve anything.

I implore you to go to China, please visit Tibet while your there. Life is not as bad as our media would have you think. Keep an open mind.

[MT]

Junhui,

You haven't offered any evidence that the Dalai Lama is a murderer. Would you do the right thing and apologize for making false incendiary statements.

That is great. Since I don't personally know a journalist who was not jailed we are to believe that CCP treats all journalists fairly. If they are jailed I guess it is their own fault. I imagine you know the Dalai Lama personally before you accuse him of murder.

So you don't believe in anything you haven't seen personally? Do you think man landed on the moon, since you haven't been to the moon? How do we know?

Are you seriously offering youtube videos are evidence?
I don't disagree with you that the Tibetan govt in the middle of the 20th century wasn't perfect. But compared to CCP murdering millions of people anything they did is quite minor.

Can you name a media outlet that is TGIE owned? I didn't think so. All independent media including western, Indian etc. have access to Tibetan govt and citizens, unlike China.

How does it matter whether I have been to China. Have you been to Dharmasala (seat of the Tibetan govt)?

[Junhui]

You missed my point. I asked if you knew a journalist. For I do not. There could have been any number of reason they got imprisoned. Maybe they overlooked the warning not to report an a particular issue or stole secret documents. I don't know. I am not an expert on this. I know of these people but I do not know of any personally. And thats what I asked you.

Secondly, you can go to youtube or surf the web for the real truth behind Tibet's political system. You will find referances to murder. While your at it, read this and pretend to enjoy it.
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7355

Can you give me a name of an independent media outlet thats in the TGIE region that is not TGIE owned?

Lastly, you still haven't answered, Have you been to China?

[MT]

Junhui,

You wrote:
"Everything press release from the TGIE seems to be TGIE controlled."

Clearly you have no clue what freedom of the press means. It doesn't mean that you cannot publish press releases. (Who do you suggest write TGIE press releases, the CCP?) All govts publish press releases. Freedom of press means that the govt doesn't restrict the freedom of independent journalists to write and publish what they like.

[MT]

Junhui,

Isn't is very convenient to make allegations of murder without one iota of evidence. Do they teach that at CCP run schools? What policies of Dalai Lama resulted in people being murdered? Please give references? Otherwise I'll just assume you are just another CCP hack making baseless allegations with no interest in the truth.

If you don't know what democracy is, let me tell you. The primary characteristic is that all people are able to vote periodically to elect a leader. It doesn't matter whether the leader is a monk or not a monk. If you restrict monks from running for office, clearly it is not a democracy.

Freedom of religion doesn't mean that you cannot have a religious leader. It means that you are allowed to worship anybody. Tibetan exiles are allowed to worship whomever they choose. In contrast, in China you would be jailed or beaten up by the police for having pictures of the Dalai Lama.

You don't know a single journalist who has been jailed in China. It clearly shows that you don't know China. Let me give you some examples:

Li Gengsong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lü_Gengsong

Shi Tao
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi_Tao

http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/2007/imprisoned_07/imprisoned_07.html
Quote:
China continues to rely heavily on the use of vague antistate charges, imprisoning 22 journalists on accusations such as “inciting subversion of state power.” Despite China’s 2001 promises to the International Olympic Committee that it would ensure “complete media freedom,” its leaders continue to jail reporters and operate a vast system of censorship, CPJ found in a special report in August. CPJ has urged the IOC and the Games’ corporate sponsors to hold Beijing accountable to its word.
“China has remained the world’s worst jailer of journalists from the day the Games were awarded through today, just months before the Olympics are scheduled to begin,” said CPJ’s Simon. “China and the IOC have an obligation to make good on the broad promises made when Beijing was selected. For the torch to be lit in Beijing next August as 29 journalists languish in jail would mock the ideals of the Olympic movement.”

[Junhui]

You know exactly what a mass murder is. Although Mao was probably more forceful about it, the majority of people who died were not directly killed by Mao. I don't think the Dalai Lama directly killed anyone either. But the policies involved on both sides lead to the deaths of a lot of PEOPLE. They both are not highly respected by me.

The first election for ALL Tibetan peoples in exile was in 2001. Yes, the administration is run by the Prime Minister but the true power is in the hands of the Dalai Lama. You know that, I know that, I think everyone knows that.

TGIE does not expropriate land...of course not, they have no land to expropriate seeing as how they are a guest of India. Makes sense when you don't have the ability to commit it, you cant.

Everything sounds great in the Charter for Tibetans in Exile. But like Chinese law its probably not worth the parchment (or maybe human skin) its written on. Freedom of religion? Why is my religious leader Buddhist? The truth is, there is no freedom in a theocracy. What the TGIE does is on a very small level. Everything press release from the TGIE seems to be TGIE controlled.

Also note that the first prime minister is also a monk. That is nothing new. Monk ruling class, what a big change. Now if they got a civilian in there from the lowest cast. Maybe then I will be impressed.

Yes, China may imprison journals but what do you know about those journalist. Do you know one? I don't. I can't say that I even understand the situation. But the true value of having state owned media is being able to question EVERYTHING you hear.

Last question, have you been to China?

[MT]

Junhui,

Dalai Lama is a mass murderer! Reference? What is your definition of murder? ;)

Just look at my previous posts for a source on who TGIE is constituted. Here it is, if you cannot be bothered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Tibetan_Administration

You said:
"Very democratic. Sounds like a democratically elected Manchurian puppet government to me."

What is your definition of democracy? Elected representatives can choose anybody to be the head of the nation. Or is it considered democracy only when they choose somebody you like? Besides the Dalai Lama is only the figure head of the govt. The administration is run by the Prime Minister.

The problem with any rights in China is that they don't have an independent judiciary. So the law is what the local CCP official says it is. Chinese constitution also supposedly guarantees the freedom of speech. But it is not worth the paper it is written on, without a credible independent judiciary to uphold it.

TGIE does not expropiate property from citizens without due process. CCP does. TGIE does not imprison people for what they say. CCP does. TGIE does not prevent journalists from doing their work. CCP jails journalist who dare tell truths inconvenient to the CCP.

Ya, CCP is trying their best! They are trying their best not to imprison journalists, but the evil westerners are making them do it!

[Junhui]

Finding references to the Dalai Lama''s feudal system is not hard.

http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/tibetanSociety/social.htm

That one would probably be the least bias and most creditable. Please just run a search or go to the library.

Yes, MAO is one of the biggest mass murders in all of history. But Mao is not China. The Dalai Lama is a mass murder too even if it was done indirectly.

BTW TGIE democratically elected? Source?

"Charter of Tibetans in Exile, which was drafted by a constitutional assembly and adopted by the exile parliament. The Charter appoints His Holiness as the head of the Tibetan nation and provides for independent executive, judicial and legislative branches of government." - tibetjustice.org

Very democratic. Sounds like a democratically elected Manchurian puppet government to me.

And yes, any property you own in China belongs to the state and is at the pleasure of the local CCP official. However, there are laws for you to cite where they have violated your rights and you may appeal. Please research into the Property Law's of the People's Republic of China, October 1, 2007.

China is revamping its civil code. As as you can see with the apartment complex above; they are trying their best. It's hard to sometimes revamp her ancient cities without a little force (not that its right). It allows for the economic development of that region. In the United States, the local government can take my land if they can prove that it will benefit the economy of the city or region.

China might be authoritarian, but corrupt is redundant. What government is not corrupt? TGIE? You made a funny.

[MT]

Junhui,

Isn't it convenient to compare CCP today with Dalai Lama's govt in the first half of the 20th century.

Here is an apples to oranges comparison:

Dalai Lama's govt might be feudal (do you have references for this?) decades ago. But the CCP were murdering innocent people by the millions. Mao is one of the biggest mass murderers in history, and his picture still adorns CCP offices today.

Right now:

TGIE is a democratically elected govt. CCP is a corrupt authoritarian govt, where people don't have property rights. Any property you hold is at the pleasure of the local CCP official. There are no independent courts to enforce any rights you might have.

[Junhui]

I dunno if anyone is still reading this article. But here is a good example of how Eminent domain is working in China. The tenants refused to accept compensation to move and this is what happened. HAHA. There was a case like this in the United States.

http://www.weirdasianews.com/2008/06/09/the-ultimate-energy-saving-building/

[student]

Please see the following blog:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4701280b01009kdf.html#contentIframeLink

[Black & Blue Tibetan]

Sounds like the spies have run out of arguments from their book of "Things to Write" approved by their political officer (the man with the cigarette).

The last two posts support everything I said! See what happens when their book doesn't cover steps 4-1000?

[Junhui]

@BBT
"I think someone forgot who owned the land." - Me, then you tell me to Google then you say I'm correct that "Normal Tibetans never owned land for the Chinese to take away." Obviously all you know is from Google. (I had to take another one from your book and insult someones intellectual integrity instead of facts.)

The "Tibetans" scattered around the world are decedents of the ruling cast (it's a wonder why they support the Dalai Lama), few are from the other casts. It is clear the Dalai Lama could have cared less to bring the rest of his livestock out of the country.

And yes, the Chinese Government DOES own all the land in China and citizens have the right to use it. If land is taken away from the average citizen; they are usually compensated (not to say that it is always fair but it has been getting better and it is not free from corruption). Unlike feudal Tibet where this wouldn't even be an argument. Of course you should go Google that too to make sure I am correct.

However, I think you would much rather enjoy the false sense of ownership that Eminent domain in the United States gives you. (this too has gotten better over the years). It just sounds much more warm and comfy than "compulsory acquisition".

While your busy searching Google, go search "Tibet launches 24-hour Tibetan-language TV channel". I dunno about you but the place where I live use to belong to Mexico. We only have channel 12 here in Spanish. I need to go protest for more Spanish channels and forget that English is the national language.

@PaZhuLian
Heh, I just like questioning things. A lot of people are clouded by their judgments and its hard to be unbiased. I much rather point out facts than insult the intelligence of many of the writers here, that's just a low blow and is reserved for when people run out of arguments.

[Black & Blue Tibetan]

PaZhuLian,

Point well taken. I'm really tired of fellow Chinese-American's lack of political and historical knowledge. It's one thing if you live in a censored country but not when you have access to so much information. There's absolutely no excuse for it. And their flippant attitude towards the 53-54 minority tribes in China really shows their true color.

And when I said the web is crawling with Chinese spies I'm not kidding. They have literally have hundreds of thousands of people that sit there all day looking for forums in the US (like this) writing in making it look like the US citizens don't give a hoot. They're very easy to spot. They cycle the same argument but through different user names.

[PaZhuLian]

@Junhui & BBT
Hey is it just me or do you guys sound like an odd couple? Only two people, same sex or not, who have been married for a long long time would go through all the trouble arguing over every single point with each other.

Now can you guys kiss and make up? It's not as hard as you thought. ;-)

[Black & Blue Tibetan]

"I think someone forgot who owned the land." Use Google...it's not that hard so you don't make brain dead comments like this.

"As far as TV Stations; I don't think they had any when the Chinese government came in" And that's why all programs in their native language was pulled? Your superior reasoning blinds me.

"It was not the Chinese government who broke a contract, but the Dalai Lama who did." No, it was the Chinese government that decided not to recognize Tibet as a sovereign country (as had been for over 500 documented years). Again, Google and see how much information you can find.

"China didn't kick the the Dalai Lama out. He ran away abandoning his own people. You'd respect someone like that?" He ran for his life so that his country still has a leader. Now, whatever happened to NEW the reincarnated Dalai Lama? Oh, the Chinese GOVERNMENT kidnapped him and the rest of the world has yet to know of his whereabouts.

"Normal Tibetans never owned land for the Chinese to take away." Hey first correct comment so far! It was a feudal system. Now, does the average Chinese citizen own land? No, it's all owned by the GOVERNMENT so their homes can be demolished and the local government and the developer can make money while the poor fool who's home was destroyed is given none. Oh, sure, there are a few that are given new homes and they're used as poster child of how "nice" the Chinese GOVERNMENT is while the one's who protest from NO compensation are locked up, beaten or just flat out murdered.

"But at least they did not view their citizens as livestock as did the Dalai Lama." And that's why Tibetans scattered around Asia want him back.

It's one thing for people living in China to make lame comments but if you live in the West and won't or can't do simple research and instead just state opinions it's better you comment on things closer to your heart...say Britney Spears and Paris Hilton? Then your opinion wouldn't matter that much but then you didn't have to think much either.

[Junhui]

After reading the above; I see where the true brain washing is. "...Tibetans, their farm lands taken away by the Chinese GOVERNMENT". I think someone forgot who owned the land. As far as TV Stations; I don't think they had any when the Chinese government came in.

It was not the Chinese government who broke a contract, but the Dalai Lama who did. It was not the Chinese government who killed Tibetans it was the Tibetan leaders at the time who sent their people to die to try to remain in power. China didn't kick the the Dalai Lama out. He ran away abandoning his own people. You'd respect someone like that?

I dunno about you, but when I break an agreement, I have to pay for it. In addition, "Tibetan children taught to look down on their own parents as being backwards". That was much later; it was not only Tibetans who suffered but everyone in China. Yes the cultural revolution was perhaps the stupidest thing that ever happened, but it affected ALL Chinese, not just Tibetans.

Normal Tibetans never owned land for the Chinese to take away. What the Chinese did was push the Dalai Lama out of power. If you're gonna do something rash always be prepared to face the consequences. That's something the Dalai Lama has yet to learn.

Yes, the Chinese government may be harsh on many people, including gays. But at least they did not view their citizens as livestock as did the Dalai Lama.

[Black & Blue Tibetan]

Dear fedup,

Where do we start? Let's see, it's your GOVERNMENT that's BRAIN WASHED you. It's your GOVERNMENT that's the bad guys. It's your GOVERNMENT that's the modern day equivalent to the Stasi. Oh, you probably wouldn't know what that is. Hmmm, how I simplify. Think North Korea...the crazy regime that has millions locked up. It's like the roach motel...people check in, but they don't check out.

"And btw, I am oversea Chinese, just because I don't agree to your position"...enough said...you wouldn't be exposed to information from all sides. You go through the motion by clicking here and typing here...but no, you wouldn't be exposed to all sides of the argument so try to find those portals that bypass the Great Filter of China. The results that you get when you Google Taiwan is very different from the results that I will get. You'll be getting a much simplified version, a subset, if you will.

'god, gun, and gay'...and when your pathetic GOVERNMENT collapses and you sit there with tears on your face while the few brave in China brought about real change...you'll also be greeted with "god, gun, and gay" and then you're eyes will really open. Wow, what a day that will be.

And, dear fedup, the gays in YOUR country are tortured and locked up and other's are simply told to leave the city of their residence, and out of fear, they comply. They've recently become more open in Shanghai and Hong Kong since they're shielded by the western traveler's heavy presence. Now, if you're happy with the torture then I can see your point about being so happy in your current situation.

And, fedup, you know about the "god, gun, and gay" Iraq war, Guantanamo, minor economic slow down, the affairs of Prince Charles and all other delicious news because...we report them! I know it's hard to think when your GOVERNMENT has been spoon feeding you information for entire life but you should be able to connect the dots at some level.

Lastly, fedup, "And frankly I only wish Tibetan will gain independence, just don't cry for economic assistance from the rest of China or from the West"...the West doesn't mind and they never asked China for HUNDREDS of years. After their businesses were shut down and replaced by non Tibetans, their farm lands taken away by the Chinese GOVERNMENT, local print, radio/TV language switched to Mandarin, Tibetan children taught to look down on their own parents as being backwards...perhaps they have the right to ask for assistance.

Do find that portal that bypasses your country's firewall. Good night, dear, CCP spy.

[A B]

@fedup

That is just not true.

Americans care a great deal about things from Tibet, especially if they are Lhasas.

Lhasa-Apsos, to be exact.

They are quite expensive, and also cost a lot to keep, groom, etc.

I myself prefer Lhasas young, tender, and grilled.

Yum!

[fedup]

Black & Blue Tibetan,

I sorry to tell you, but majority Americans really don't give a f**k about Tibet, they don't even know where Tibet is, and pronounce Tibet as 'to-bed', or 'tea-bag'. Majority Americans have long been suffering with a sympathy fatigue syndrome, and they have their own bags of 'god, gun, and gay' plus the war in Iraq, plus the economy to worry about. If you try counting on Americans to back up your plot, I am sorry to tell you, but you will truly be disappointed.

And btw, I am oversea Chinese, just because I don't agree to your position, that doesn't make me a ccp spy, ok? So please don't throw accusations around, because that makes you sounded as if you have some anger management issues. And frankly I only wish Tibetan will gain independence, just don't cry for economic assistance from the rest of China or from the West when you enjoy your independence, and freedom of religion.

[fedup]

Black & Blue Tibetan,

I sorry to tell you, but majority Americans really don't give a f**k about Tibet, they don't even know where Tibet is, and pronounce Tibet as 'to-bed', or 'tea-bag'. Majority Americans have long been suffering with a sympathy fatigue syndrome, and they have their own bags of 'god, gun, and gay' plus the war in Iraq, plus the economy to worry about. If you try counting on Americans to back up your plot, I am sorry to tell you, but you will truly be disappointed.

And btw, I am oversea Chinese, just because I don't agree to your position, that doesn't make me a ccp spy, ok? So please don't throw accusations around, because that makes you sounded as if you have some anger management issues. And frankly I only wish Tibetan will gain independence, just don't cry for economic assistance from the rest of China or from the West when you enjoy your independence, and freedom of religion.

[Black & Blue Tibetan]

PaZhuLian, you obviously don't know the Chinese culture. Luck my as...their conversation is littered with comments about how this is bad luck and that is bad luck. Really, know what you're talking about instead of passing out opinion as fact.

"Her problem was more like oops, I didn't know these poor Chinese had money to buy Christian Dior." Your ignorance is amazing.

"Even Xinhua seems to be embarrassed by it as this article is nowhere to be found on its website." The only reason it's removed is because they CENSOR their news! Yeah, I know, it's amazing how little people know in this country with access to so much news. They don't want their own citizens to "think", with all their superstitions, that maybe their government's action had something to do with this ill event. And no, I'm not superstitious.

Lastly, children, be careful what you read on the web...it's crawling with Chinese spies. With one comment you make they'll write 100 to the contrary and make it look like American's don't give a s*it about what's going on in China.

[TommyT67]

“Sharon Stone’s latest comments only appear to add to the immense John Melnicki, Harbor Lane Associates, John Ackerly, ICT family tree. A tree that gives the impression of endless growth. Her remarks at the Cannes Film Festival just raise more questions about this interesting group of pro-Tibet players. Stone and Melnicki dated back in 2002-2003, and have been seen at several events beside Ackerly. Richard Gere is on the board of ICT and a good friend of Melnicki’s. Toss in Bush Sr. and Cohen and its simple to notice both Harbor Lane Associates and ICT have an abundance of friends in lofty places. Why would these organizations be so close to each other?”

Reference:

http://fanonite.org/2008/03/26/tibet-the-great-game-and-the-cia/

[Junhui]

@Black & Blue
Are the Tibetans that died during the quake apart of this karma? If you're willing to overlook the deaths of your own people to make a point. You're a sick individual.

If all natural disasters were Karma, the United States would be in deep trouble. I guess man-made disasters such as the Tibetan Cast system should also be treated as such.

[PaZhuLian]

@Black & Blue Tibetan
Not quite. With her botox enhanced marketability diminishing with every minute goes by, she needs to hold on to whatever endorsement deal she can get. Her problem was more like oops, I didn't know these poor Chinese had money to buy Christian Dior.

As for superstition. To me, Chinese believe more in luck, which tends to be more random but optimistic view of future, rather than karma, which seems to have a more pessimistic and deterministic outlook. To each their own. It's alright if karma is your cup of tea, just don't try to change your position next time when something bad happens to yourself Mr. BBT. Because you'll have to say you deserved it.

[PaZhuLian]

@Pffefer
Here is the article republished by couple of other outlets.
http://news.wenxuecity.com/messages/200805/news-gb2312-615946.html
http://jswm.newssc.org/system/2008/05/29/010862365.shtml

I think this guy needs to get a life and get out more, and so should people getting hyped up about this kind of rants by some grumpy-old-man columnists. Even Xinhua seems to be embarrassed by it as this article is nowhere to be found on its website.

[Black & Blue Tibetan]

Sharon, you've made enough money. You don't need to step back from your comment.

Since the Chinese culture is steep in superstitions why not believe that the quake is from bad karma they they're reaping in bushels for all the killings, torturing and maiming of their own citizens.

What? It's not fun when that old superstition bites back on your ass?

Sharon should go back to the microphone and proudly restate what she said.

[Andy T]

I believe that she has a big public relation problem. A public person like her, said such things. She can be finished in China. The product she represent will be in deep hit in China and Chinese all over the world.

[Pffefer]

MT,

What exactly did Xinhua say? Any link to the alleged Xinhua commentary?

[MT]

Pffefer,

Here is an AP story which mentions the Xinhua comment.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gMBwAZGV9myQXcApApwJgIyulJ0gD90VCT100
Stone's comments caused considerable anger in the Chinese media. The official Xinhua News Agency said in a commentary Thursday she was the "public enemy of all mankind."

[Pffefer]

Varela,

Your self-righteousness and ignorance are just amazing. Nobody cares about the Burmese? Nobody criticizes the junta because they are Asian? Check this out: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JE28Ad01.html

Xinhua proclaimed Sharon Stone " an enemy of mankind."? Where was that? How did I miss it?

And if you think all Chinese speak and think with the same voice you ought to check yourself into a mental rehab.

Dennis,

If Beijing and Shanghai had been annihilated as you have wished I guess you would not be able to keep up with your mortage payments with interest rates going through the roof. You wouldn't be as gleeful as you are right now, would you?

One more thing, speaking of murders and nationalists supporting them, were you by any chance talking about the Americans? :-)

[Wilbur Varela]

Senor PaZhuLian,
If your racist Jibe at Calderon and mexico is meant to upset me, it doesn't. I am against the drug war. And Bush. Drugs should be regulated and legal. Free people are able to decide their own fate. The same with homosexuality. I came to america to escape poverty and the bigotry of small minds. If I wanted to go where others tell me what to think, I would have emigrated to China.

[MT]

AB,

Mao would be proud of you ;)

Bigotry is a disease, and needs to be treated or quarantined!

[A B]

Homosexuality is a disease, not a manifestation of capitalism.

Scientific research need to be done to see if it is caused by genetics, or other influences like environmental exposure to harmful substances, or indoctrination by other means.

After the science is properly done and the condition identified and proven effective treatments devised, it needs to be treated where possible, and where not possible, to be quarantined.

In extreme cases, those with this illness need to be treated with even stronger measures.

[MT]

PaZhuLian,

The Tibetan constitution doesn't mention that you will not be discriminated against based on how tall you are, the color of your hair or any number of other things. It doesn't mean that you will be discriminated against either. Other constitutions like the US constitution also doesn't mention discrimination based on these either.

If you are going to allege that the TGIE discriminates based on sexual orientation or political affiliation, please say on which instance and provide references. Otherwise you are just a hack which makes generic allegations with no basis. I am not going to respond to random allegations again if you don't provide proof.

Since we are at the topic let us review CCP's record on these matters:

Political/religious beliefs:
We all know how the CCP persecutes people based on their beliefs -- Ask the Falun Gong, on any number of people in prison for their political and religious beliefs.

Sexual orientation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_China
"Homosexuality went underground after the formation of the People's Republic of China. The Communist regime persecuted homosexuals, especially during the Cultural Revolution, when many homosexuals were punished with long prison terms and sometimes execution. Social tolerance of homosexuality declined.
Since the policy of Reform and Opening Up in 1979, the Communist Party has been loosening its control over this kind of behavior. But the practice of homosexuality is still labeled as a "moldering life style of capitalism".

[jack S]

sharon stone is evil, no compassion for the 70,000 dead & 20,000 missing (they included the tibetans living in that area, muslim, Han).
She should be boycotted for all her finacial dealings. Hope she will die from painful death like the earthquake victims.

[WB]

I noticed right after the earthquake that many comments posted on the web by some Americans on the disaster are that of unsympathetic to out-right exuberant. Typical comments are "oh they ship us lead-laden toys so they deserve it.." or "Chinese took my job so I am not going to donate a cent- they can afford it..", etc. The Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, even issued a press release thanking God "for the Great Killer Earthquake that He sent to kill thousands of stiff hearted Chinese rebels against God."

Ms. Stone's comment maybe just underlined this anti-China attitude. It is time for the American politicians and media to tone down and stop this China bashing.

[WB]

I noticed right after the earthquake that many comments posted on the web by some Americans on the disaster are that of unsympathetic to out-right exuberant. Typical comments are "oh they ship us lead-laden toys so they deserve it.." or "Chinese took my job so I am not going to donate a cent- they can afford it..", etc. The Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, even issued a press release thanking God "for the Great Killer Earthquake that He sent to kill thousands of stiff hearted Chinese rebels against God."

Ms. Stone's comment maybe just underlined this anti-China attitude. It is time for the American politicians and media to tone down and stop this China bashing.

[PaZhuLian]

@MT
Well, I agree. Why don't you help enlighten these CCP hacks on some facts. Such as why discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or political affiliation was not mentioned in this article 9, or entire Chapter II for that matter. Of course stuff get lost in translation. But a document as important as the constitution? Maybe TGIE need to hire more competent translators.

Or maybe not...

[MT]

Junhui,

I at least work for my check by substantiating my comments with references etc. Unlike the CCP hacks whose idea of an argument is just name calling. Did you see that I am yet to see a single reference to back up anything which is from the CCP side. I think the CCP is getting a really bad deal for the money spent. They need to hire more competent people.

[PaZhuLian]

@A B
By northern girl, i think jeff meant chicks from his hometown in certain northeastern province, or as he would fondly refer to as "nan nei ga da de".
You can hardly call chicks in Beijing rigid northern girl because more often than not those attractive ones are not native "Beijinger". Of course, you don’t need me to point that out to you since you are there.

@jeff
That was a very impressive action packed daily entertainment schedule. Although it does make people wonder whether some type of business transactions were involved. ;-) Who can blame you for not going back too often, since your money are not going as far as before with the dollar dropping like stone?