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October 02, 2007

Comments

Tina

There are such erroneous conclusions draw here it is difficult to know where to begin. You say that the Pals would not be fired upon by Israeli soldiers if the soldiers were not guarding Israeli settlements. May I remind you that all of the wars since 1948 were started or provoked by the arabs who then think that there should be no cosiquences. There is also a very long and easily substantiated list of historical attrocities perpetuated against the Jews yet you think Israel should allow someone like Tutu (who has often voiced his anti-Israel sentiments) come in for an "impartial" judgement of what actually happened in Gaza. The fact that the beach remnants were far more indicitive of a planted bomb than an air attack doesn't seem to be of any interest to you. For some reason the left leaning intelligencia hates Israel and will do anything possible to show how the poor Palestinians are set upon by the big evil Israel. This is so far from the truth one has to wonder where this all came from. Israel has always only reacted to the terror it has had to endure from the arabs for many years. It is Israelis who sing of peace, Israel which constantly offers peace deals and the arabs who resist. Can you name one thing the Pals have ever done to promote peace?

Joe

Of course the Israelis are ALWAYS justified in ANYTHING they do and EVERY Palestinians reaction is terrorism. Every single atrocity was Arab against Jew and NEVER the other way around. The Irgun was a peace-loving organizations and the King David Hotel blew up by spontaneous combustion.

Joe

Of course the Israelis are ALWAYS justified in ANYTHING they do and EVERY Palestinians reaction is terrorism. Every single atrocity was Arab against Jew and NEVER the other way around. The Irgun was a peace-loving organizations and the King David Hotel blew up by spontaneous combustion.

Tina

The Irgun did not target and kill civilians. That has always been the goal in arab terrorism, kill women and children. Make the Israelis suffer enough and they'll leave - that's been the philosophy.

Dion Nissenbaum

Tina - The comment about Israel and the settlements is from James Fallows, not from me. Secondly, I hope you will take time to read my piece about the beach shelling. The evidence suggests that the family members were killed by an Israeli artillery shell, not a planted bomb. I devoted a lot of time to personally investigating the story and there was no evidence to back the Israeli contention that it was a bomb planted by Hamas. I won't recount the story, as I hope you will read it (linked in this piece), but it is clear that Israel was shelling the beach at the time the family was killed. I do not discount the possibility that one of the family members was trying to remove a dud Israeli artillery shell from the beach (something kids do in Gaza to make some money), but that theory was not borne out by interviews with the family...

Todd Shishler

I hate how any nutter with a computer (in this case, Tina) can write this kind of trash without any shame at all. It is so cheap and easy to comment on a blog. I'd love to hear Tina explain to us how the Irgun did not kill civilians, I'd like to hear her explain the other 900 Palestinian kids killed in the last seven years, and then she can tell us about the staged deaths of 5,000 other Palestinians. Instead, she dishonours real people who have died real deaths, and she does it in the most cowardly way. It is profoundly ignorant, but mostly it is just good ol' fashioned tribal racism.

Tina

Todd, first of all name-calling is really not productive in any conversation. Civilians may have died in Irgun operations but were not the targets. The targets were British soldiers. I'm not sure that I buy the 5,000 civilian death number because I wonder if you are counting a 17 year old who is planning on blowing himself up on an Israeli bus as a civilian or a soldier. Also, many of the civilian deaths that occur amont the Palestinians are due to lack of protection provided by their leaders (such as bomb shelters which are required in all public buildings in Israel) and because the Palestinians place rocket launchers, etc around schools and hospitals thereby creating the potential for civilian deaths.
When you go back to the history of the area the Arabs have made themselves into very willing victims, I guess in the hope that the world will view Israel as unreasonable and unfortunately this ploy has worked on many.

Anton C

Todd- You are obviously an antisemite, with the kind rehtoric spilling off of your computer, you're just another jew hater that thinks he knows something about the culture in the middle east. Your attack on Tina shows that she ratteld your cage, because your only response was to call her a name and throw undocumented numbers around like you're some kind of coroner running around Israel, keeping count. In all the years I spent in the middle east the one thing I've learned is that the Arab propaganda machine has got you liberal morons fooled, and you're so pathetic you can't wait to eat more lies out of their hands!

Dion Nissenbaum

Tina, Todd, Anton et al:
For a look at numbers of deaths, a good place to check is B'Tselem. Their stats break down # of kids killed, # killed in targeted killings, # killed in fighting, etc. It is not perfect, but it does offer a good foundation for discussion. You can find the #s here: https://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp

Palestinian miliants usually fire rockets into southen Israel from groves on the edge of Gaza towns. Can't think of an incident where militants fired these rockets from near a hospital.

Tina

I do not necessarily trust the numbers gathered by B'Tselem (incidentally that's the org that Todd is linked to so no need to figure out where he gets his mis-info from). And you don't answer my question which is do you classify a 17-year old suicide bomber as a civilian or military? I would bet that B'tselem would call him a civilian. I would call him a terrorist/soldier. Also, there were many, many rocket lauchers in all kinds of non-military buildings in Southern Lebanon last summer as there have always been arms stored on the West Bank in schools, hospitals, etc. You answer my questions with answers to other questions. Why don't you stick to the subject?

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ABOUT THIS BLOG

dion

Checkpoint Jerusalem was written by Dion Nissenbaum, who covered the Middle East as Jerusalem bureau chief for McClatchy Newspapers from 2005 to 2009.

Nissenbaum is now McClatchy's bureau chief in Kabul, covering south Asia with an emphasis on Afghanistan. See his new blog at Checkpoint Kabul.

Feel free to send a story suggestion. Read his stories at news.mcclatchy.com.

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